The Army Gave Me Cancer. Here's What I Did Next.

0:00What's up, bro? And he's like, oh, the VA never paid us, so we had to take it back. I'm like, you're repossessing my foot in my ankle? On. Well, you wanna see a dude get furious? K. I didn't take it I didn't I didn't scream at him. When I say furious, I I should really say determined. Okay? That was it. It was on. The VA just crossed the line. You're listening to the Foundation Dental podcast, strategic conversations for dentists and leaders building long term value in dentistry. I'm doctor Jim Arnold. Let's get into today's conversation. Hey. My guest today is Matt Brown. He's the cofounder of Energize Dental Marketing and the cohost of Dental Unfiltered. He's one of the most listened to podcasters in dentistry.

0:39I had the privilege of being on his show recently, and I'm thrilled to have him here with me today. He's one of the rare guys in podcasting who doesn't take sponsorships, which is remarkable because he's got one of the most listened to podcasts in dentistry, and he would get a lot of sponsorship if he took it. But I think that's one of the things that makes him so credible. And, you know, Matt's one of those guys who comes from outside of dentistry. No knowledge whatsoever. I think it gives him a big advantage, actually. He sees things in a way that a lot of us don't. He's an army veteran, a martial arts academy owner, entrepreneur. This, Like I said, complete outsider. But I think that's the right lens, and I think that's the lens that's helped him make a big impact on the industry in a really short period of time.

1:18He's also been through some things that would have broken a lot of people. But I think Matt, just getting to know him, it's just made him stronger. So, Matt, hey, man. It's great to have you on the show. Thanks for Yeah. I'm I'm I'm excited. I was just talking to Jim before we started recording. And, normally, I'm not on the guest side. And I got a guest link today for Riverside, and I got really happy about it because I never get to be on this side. And I have to pre think about things, so I'm just here. No. I'm I'm excited to be on your show. You know, it it's it's been a wild ride in dentistry, man. Like, I I my business partner, like, that's a couple years ago now, said to me, like, you really fell in love with dentistry.

1:51And I was like, BS. And I was like, wait a minute. Maybe I did. And I I am in love I am in love with dentistry somehow, and I don't know how that happened. But I am absolutely and Dental and Filter is kind of a projection of that. Energize does fund it, but they are separated. Like, it it doesn't have revenue. And our CEO allows it to be a passion project to me and doctor Vallos and the other hosts we have on the channel. And all of us love dentistry that are on the And we do it for the love of dentistry. You know, and you're one of those guys who was just gonna tell it like it is too. You know, a lot of people Yeah.

2:22They're very they have a filter, and they're worried about offending somebody or whatever, but you're just gonna tell like it is. And it's one of the things I've loved about you as I've gotten to know you over this past year. I mean, we always have great conversations. And, you to get you share one of those conversations with an audience, I think, is a it's a real privilege. So I I wanna start out though. A couple weeks ago, were talking, and you said that dentists were in, like, the bravest profession. You know, and I thought about that. I think about you, you know, an eighty second airborne, you know, jumping out of airplanes and all that kind of things. I mean, that's a big statement. How do you how do you support that?

2:55Like, what what does that even mean? So, you know, I I think when there's ever a large a large unknown with a heavy risk, that's brave. So, like, going to my background, like, know, I was in the eighty second. I was a special operations hand to hand combat instructor. And then I was on a covert surveillance team, surveillance team called LRSS, long range surveillance teams. And, like, I volunteered for that stuff, and the the risk was high. It was in my life and my friends' lives. Right? But going into it, when we plan a mission, there's there's some, like, key factors that kinda mitigate risk, and we know we know a little bit more. Some intelligence. It's good. Where I think dentists are really brave.

3:33And I I really truly I say this all the time on stage. I I really mean this. You guys commit to a really long training pipeline not knowing if you like dentistry at all. True. Then and and like, bro, your student loans, like, I think I talked to an NYU grad recently at a dental event. I think it was a dental boost camp, Paul's event. And I think they had, like, 6 or $700,000 in just student loans. My god. And it's shocking. It's it's absurd. And I think that was the number. I I could be wrong. Someone's listening right now. So no matter believe it. I mean, that's a that's one of the more expensive places. I mean, shit, the the average is like 400, 500,000.

4:09So Yeah. So it's gotta be. There's gotta be some 6 and 700 thousands out Right? Oh, absolutely. Average. So what happens if you're a d three and you hate dentistry? What do you do? Disaster. So so let's talk about what you lost. The the there's a financial point. Like, that that's rough, dude. That is life crippling debt if you don't find a multi $100,000 a year income. Yeah. But what about your time and how far you committed on that pipeline? Right? Honestly, the the financial part, we can figure out. Right? You're never getting that time back. And I don't know if docs don't realize how brave of a decision it is until they're into it or if they know. I think there is some naivety because they get focused on like, I'm a dentist.

4:52I'm gonna make a lot of money. I don't think they realize it's brave. And a lot of docs when I'm on stage, I explain it, and they go, man, that was brave. You know, I love that. I've never heard anybody say that before. But when you said that a couple of weeks ago, I thought about it. I'm like, man, you are you hit the nail on the head. I mean, we come out of school with debt. We come out of school without any business skills. We don't have leadership training. We don't have communication training, any of that stuff. And we're thrown into situations where where we're just kinda supposed to figure it out. And, you know, when you bring into into account that we're also dealing intensive millimeters and dealing with anxiety with patients and all those sorts of things, I I mean, it's it's pretty shocking.

5:27You know? I think most of us, like, grew up and love our dentist and, wow, they have a great lifestyle. Everything's wow. What an easy thing. And we have no idea until we're into it. Yeah. I mean, maybe it's good. I mean, I mean, I to be transparent and to all the dentists listening, I've done some really hard stuff in my life. I would not want your job. Like, I well, I'll be honest. Okay? Yeah. I would not want your job. Like, I watch you guys first. Like, we talk about the debt part. You know, before you guys have dollar equity one in the world, the the cost of doing a dental startup I was just talking to the guys at Ideal Practice. I'm really tight with them.

6:03I think the cost of a dental startup now is over 1,000,000 when it was, like, 800, I think, 700,000 before. Yeah. I think that's pretty accurate. Yeah. It's over 1,000,000 now. And then if you do an acquisition, you're 1,000,000, million and 0.5 depending on what you get. Right? So, like, let's say you're 2,000,000 in debt and you don't have dollar equity one. Okay? And the the most important tools that are neglected is, like, fundamental accounting, leadership. Like, you guys don't understand your numbers. Like Yeah. You you don't. Like, we use dental we're the third largest consumer of dental intelligence in the country over at my company, and we use it in all of our accounts because we wanna know the numbers. Right? Yeah. And we'll ask a doc, what's your average patient value?

6:43Oh, ADA average, $804.16. They're like, really? And I'm like, yeah. That can't be right. Oh, it's right. The $500,000,000 company software is not wrong. The math math. You know what? It it's one of those things where if you don't pay attention to your numbers, if you're not looking at your p and l at least monthly, if you're not looking at these dashboards and taking all that in, you don't have a business. You've got a a No. A job. You know? You've got a hobby. Wait. And that's kind of the thing with dentists. Right? It's like the exit, the retirement exit is the sale of the practice. Right? And I think there's an assumption that that's just gonna come at a certain dollar value. But then you go somewhere and it's a complete mess.

7:22You go to a professional for help, and you're like, I'm gonna sell next year. Well, first of all, you're late. Second of all, it's gonna take over a year to clean up your mess. Yeah. Right? And I think docs don't ever close their books out. They just don't. And and and that that's a really important act. I think the real I think where the real fundamental failure happens here is two places. First place is you guys don't get the education. You don't. Like, there's there's a lot of stuff. And if I could, like, give a young actually, I give a lot of young dentists advice all the time. I have a lot of listeners and our associates and our our d fours and d threes.

7:52And I'm like, on your own, outside of your when you have a place where you have the time and the brain bandwidth, go take a fundamental accounting class. Go take a fundamental business class. Maybe even just do a master class online because that's more than you had otherwise. But then, let's say we don't do that. The doc gets into owning the practice, and he thinks he can hire the solution in the form of a manager. The manager is not there to keep you away from the stuff you're uncomfortable with. Right. The manager is there to execute what you want done. And if you're uncomfortable with that stuff, that means that's where you gotta put your attention. Well, look. There are so many resources out there today.

8:28I mean, there's no lack of information. You can learn to do anything. You just have to be focused on it and commit to it, whatever it is. And that's one of those anything about marketing or dental. And five years, six years later, I'm here. I didn't know shit. Like, literally, like, literally called my business partner from other businesses I had and said, hey, man. We're getting into dental. Really? Love it. Yeah. Marketing. I love it. What do we know about it? Nothing. We'll figure it out. Well, going back to your military days, though, like, I mean, could you even imagine, like, doing what you're doing today, you know, on a typical Tuesday in the eighty second? I mean, like, what was that day like, and what did you think your future was gonna look like?

9:03Yeah. So, you know, it's funny, like, the progression of what I thought my future was gonna be like coming off the military. Yeah. I was in the eighty second as a paratrooper. I was in eighty second sustained brigade special troops battalion. And then I moved on to being a hand in combat instructor and then the surveillance teams. And when I built up this trade craft, I thought, well, I have a clearance. I have this. We were I was in during the height of the the best time in the war on terror, like, when all the money was flowing. Was in the middle. Mhmm. And then I was like, well, I'm I'm gonna get contract work. I'm valuable. Right? And I did a little bit, like a tiny bit.

9:37But, like, in a regular day at work, I got up in the morning, ran PT in the morning with my guys. Like, you know, I rent and ran. I mean, the eighty second you run. And then, like, we'd we'd go to go to our company area, maybe have a jump scheduled that night, get geared up, get ready, do pre jump, get out, do a jump. You mean, like, night jumps, like Yeah. Like, night jump. Like, a Oh, we'd have, like, a two in two in the morning time on target. Dude. And then and then, you know, and that was my normal day. If anyone ever came to me during that life and was like, dude, you're gonna be like the bet one of the most popular podcasters in dentistry.

10:10I'm like, you're full of it. I barely brush my teeth. My my my girlfriend complains about my bad breath. Like like, literally, like, I was, like, I was, like, I barely ever gone to the dentist in my life. I think I've gotten wisdom teeth take out in the military, but I never went to the dentist. I I have, like, pretty good natural genetics for teeth. Yeah. They're not straightest, but they're not. I don't get I've I've I've never had a cavity in my life. Yeah. You know, that's that's incredible. I mean, I was kinda the same way as a kid. I mean, I didn't take great care of my teeth, and I never had a cavity either. As I part of the reason why I went into dentistry, I'm like, man, it's so easy.

10:44I see my dentist for, like, three minutes every time. He's probably in there watching TV or something the rest of the day. Just breaking in all this money. Kinda progressing further in the military, like, that was the beginning of my career. And then when I became a hand I was I was a pretty good I'm a I'm a I'm a pretty good Brazilian jiu jitsu fighter. Like, it's the bulk of my life is close violence. I've been on the mats for twenty five years between high school wrestling and jiu jitsu. I spent twenty five years on the mats and in mat rooms fighting. And then I became a full time hand and combat instructor, and I really thought that was the rest of my life.

11:15I was like, I've dedicated my whole life to this. I'm gonna be teaching on some level. And coming I actually was on stage one time speaking at an event, and I had a q and a, and the doc asked me, like, how do you come up with this stuff, man? Like, what's your background? So my entire background is close violence, fighting people in tiny rooms and hurting them. And I don't You know what's crazy, man? It's it's so hard to imagine that. Like, just just knowing you and the guy that you are and how generous you are and all that sort of thing, it's it's really hard to imagine that. In that world, I am a very dominant no matter what. You're not. Yeah. There's no world where you die.

11:49Like, there was a point in time in my career where I didn't know your name in the jiu jitsu world. You were never beating me. And to give you an idea, like, when I was a combatives instructor, every Monday, we got 20 to 40 new students. And they were eighty second guys, psychological operations operatives, I mean, green berets. There is one time I got tasked out to a super a super unit deep into our government just to help out for a little bit. And, like, that was it. Like and I like, we've all seen maybe you've seen the movie Commando with Arnold Schwarzenegger. He he gets into a fight in the hotel room with the black guy. He's in, like, every action movie with Arnold.

12:27Right. And the guy's like, I'm a green beret. And then Arnold says, why eat green berets for breakfast? Like, I literally did. Like Oh my god. I, like it was not abnormal. And there's I won't say names. There's a couple of real famous guys in my community that are on podcasts all the time. And me and my wife watch some of these podcasts, and I'm like, I used to beat that guy up every day. Like, every single day, I used to beat him up. And, you know, it it is it it's a far cry from my life now. I still get on the mats. I have a mat room in my home. My kids train. My wife is a very talented fighter too. Really? And All that My wife my wife's a monster.

13:02My wife won the Monster Energy World Championship. She's a killer. She Did you have coach? No. She's not, but she comes from a big military family. She has three brothers, three sisters, one of six. Her her younger brother is a green beret. Her other brother was a paratrooper with me. Her dad was a hundred and first. Her one sister works foreign intelligence. She So yeah. She comes from that world, which is why we we collided and got like, I understood her family. They understood me. I fit right in. We could talk. I could relate to all the men in the family. We Yeah. We we get along really well. But my my wife is pretty serious too. And our kids are kinda raised that way.

13:37Our our kids are like I mean, my son races motocross. He crashed real bad Less race day he had, which was a couple weeks ago. And he had a real bad crash race one. He had four races that day. At race four, he crashed again on the same exact My god. But yeah. And his his arm was just my son's five, by the way. He's five. He jumps over giant like, like, I mean, the kid does 50 miles per hour on the straightaways on his dirt bike. Like, everyone thinks I'm crazy. And he crashed on his he crashed on his his fourth race of the day and landed on the same injury, and he was crying. I'm like, hey, man. First of I don't push my kids.

14:09But I'm like, hey, man. You you scored a lot of points. You're in a good position. If you don't finish this race, you're not top three. If you just come across the finish line because you've done so well today, you'll be top three. And he got on the bike, fighting tears, finished. And I just feel like there's a intestinal fortitude that comes from that, which I think I've Segueing back to dentistry, I think I've been good about transferring that to Dennis that it is all on you. Because because business is is is the reason why I love business and sales and dentistry is to me and and Mark Cuban said this. Business is the greatest contact sport in the world. It's 247, 365. People are trying to eat your lunch.

14:46And I live life that way. Like, I live life like, every day someone's trying to take it from me and I'm not letting it happen. And my my fighting spirit kinda falls over there. And that's kinda something I I try to transfer to Dennis. Like, hey, man. No matter who fails in your practice, it's your failure. Let's just be dominant and win in your marketplace. So, I mean, do you feel like you learned a lot about business in the military? I mean, that mindset, that mentality, it sounds like you just carry it into every facet of your life. So I got really lucky real early in my life. Both my parents were really good entrepreneurs, the serial entrepreneurs. And my dad, for lack of a better word, was a complete jerk.

15:22My my dad was very rough on me and my brother. My dad had, like, ATVs, and my my dad had, like, a hunting lease in Texas he would go hunt on. And me and my brother never got to use them. I would say, hey. Can I get a four wheeler? When you have your own money, you can. But my dad wouldn't buy cars for us when we were 17. And and look, we we had a rough relationship. Looking back though, a lot of my foundation of just make it happen for yourself is is there. Like, I don't like, Glenville asked me a question one time about, like, if I got taken across the country on he asked me on stage, and and I didn't have anything, what I do?

15:50And I was, bro, I'll just start selling for somebody. You kidding me? I've been making 6 figures plus in six months. Like, no problem at all. I have no doubt. Like, drop me anywhere. And that's kind of for my special ops world too is drop me anywhere in the world with a product. I'm I'm gonna do well. My old job in the surveillance world was drop me anywhere in the world of my team, and we're gonna take pictures of the bad guy and find him. Right? And and and totally unsupported. But I think that my my family being entrepreneurs was kind of a base for me. So my dad owned a large screen printing company. They shipped really large number, 10 to 15,000 dozen shirts a week.

16:22Oh, my god. Think about the size of that. And he he owned he owned the rights to, like, sports teams garments. Like, if you went to, the seventy sixers, everything in his stadium was printed by my father. And I would be at the dinner table in our home with like the nineteen nineties seventy sixers was owned by Harold Katz. And he would be at the table and I would listen to multi million dollar business deals. Come on. Really? Yeah. I got real lucky. And my dad would be like, you were to be here and shut up and not talk and listen. Take it all in. And take it all in. And I would. What I lacked going into my adult life was the ability to execute and complete.

16:59I had great ideas. My brain would go fast. I loved consuming business non fiction books. Like, I there's I mean, like, the Bernie Madoff. My favorites are I I love the Bernie Madoff book. That that's fascinating to me to to me because that guy, if he was legit and wasn't a scam artist, could have been could have been as successful as he looked like he was. Yeah. I love the Enron book. I love I love the crime the business crime books. And the Enron story, once again, is amazing. My my all time favorite book that I recommend to everybody to read if they wanna get good at business is Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill. I think that's a that's a seminal read you have to do.

17:34I'm looking up here. Know it's up here on my shelf somewhere. Yeah. Yeah. That's It's a class. It's fast. And I mean with with that, there's a secret meaning in the book. Keep reading it till you figure the secret meaning out and it kinda locks things. Another one where people were surprised about this fact about me, I'm actually Mormon, and no one ever thinks that. Everyone's like, really? And I'm like, I know I cuss, and I don't come off as Mormon, but I'm Mormon. There's a book called The Mormon Way of Doing Business. And for remove the Mormon part of it. Mhmm. K. Remove the religion part of it. Alright? It's very good about self management. That's one of my favorites. And, of course, rich dad, poor dad, all the other ones.

18:08But those those I don't know why. Those four I read probably a few times. Like, I read the Bernie Madoff story. Like, I mean, I probably read it twice last year. No kidding. That's great. I mean I love that book. It it's just that the guy was so smart but an idiot. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Exactly. And that I mean, it says the thing. You can learn from everybody. You know? You can learn from his successes and brilliance, and you can learn from the stupid shit that he did. You know? He was an idiot. Yeah. Yeah. The guy was brilliant. Just misdirected terribly. Hey. I wanna talk a little bit about your, your cancer diagnosis. It's kinda like what what that looked like and, you know, the just the whole the whole process and what what Yeah.

18:47That was bizarre. So it kinda comes back to a lot of other stuff. My my wife's little brother, who is I I call my little brother. I'm I'm really close. His name is William. I'm I'm really close to him. He means a lot to me. I've done so much. I I didn't have little brothers. I had an older brother. We weren't very close. I love him. We're not very close. And I I gained these three little brothers that I love. And I really love all three of them. Like, they're I really do. And one day, he was home from the army. We're in my in laws' backyard. And, like, all of us, like, all three of them either did train or do train jujitsu, particularly William.

19:19And I hopped on his back and threw took his back real quick. I went to choke him. And he he rolled over my leg, and I felt something. I was like, what was that? And forty percent of my femur was bone cancer. Oh, shit. Yeah. And, dude, the every time I show a doc the X rays, they're like, dude, this is nuts. Like, it's 40% as fuzzy and bright. Right? Oh my god. Yeah. It's crazy. And then he rolled over my leg, and I felt something. And the next day, I couldn't walk. I could not walk. Like, I could put no weight on it. Like and I'm pretty good at fighting through stuff. Yeah. Like, I went through a a a training process that was pretty difficult, and I had a double fractured back at one point and didn't know it.

19:54So, like, I can fight through crap. Couldn't walk. Went to the hospital. I told my I told my my little brother dropped me off, and I said, hey. Just I'll have I'll have my wife, Jane, pick me up. Like, I'll just get X rays. I thought it was an old MCL injury I had. Mhmm. And the doc looked at the X rays and just like this, looks at him and looks at me and goes, bro, you got bone cancer. It's bad. You are going directly to Duke Cancer Center right now. Just like that. And you'd have those symptoms up until, know, you're I had some discomfort in that leg. But you gotta remember, I I used my body like a race car for twenty years.

20:27Aches and pains and shit. Like, I don't think much of it. Yeah. I haven't felt comfortable in twenty like, you have you can relax and feel comfortable. I haven't felt physically comfortable in twenty years, and I just always brushed it off. Well, what the doc was astonished. He's like, dude, your leg can snap at any moment. And I was like, I was throwing full grown men around MMA cage yesterday. And he was like, dude, you're lucky your femur didn't just snap. I know. What a miracle. Holy shit. I know. And I and I was doing it every day. So they they think so the this is actually factual now. It it was from exposure. So the cancer I have is, like, one in three million in kids, zero in adults.

21:06Yeah. And I got exposed to radiation on Fort Bragg. One of the buildings I had worked in had radioactive one five five anti tank rounds buried under it. And hence, since they found more in the seventies, they didn't know what to do with these things after they shot them off. They just randomly buried them all over Fort Bragg. Well, there's no map there's no map of where they're buried. And then as I dug into it, I went on to a a Facebook group and I asked some questions and people came forward. And I'm like, I worked in that building and I have blood cancer. I worked in that building. I have brain cancer. Yeah. So it was pretty crazy. I I got semi lucky. I never needed chemo treatment afterwards.

21:39We just did an amputation. Now I had a different fight. My new fight was living with one leg above the knee amputation. So it was a different kind of fight than cancer treatment. But it's it's something that's probably not over. This cancer moves to your lungs, and I'm under constant observation. It is a high probability that some point in the future, I'll have to deal with this again. And that kinda goes back to kind of my attitude of being aggressive also is I've had two other near death experiences in the military. And I know that we definitely I've taken ownership. I've I've had two near death experiences in the military. One other one is a civilian scuba diver where I got rescued out in the ocean 50 miles.

22:18I was adrift taken by a current by myself with one light. Where where were you and how did that happen? So I was there's a thing here off the coast where I live called the Frying Pan Tower. And it's a tower. It's a 110 feet above the water. It's called the world's most dangerous Airbnb. It's in shark infested waters. You either take a helicopter there or a boat. Long story short, I was out there with a bunch of people. I was in the water. The current had shifted, and I hadn't kept track of the current. And all of a sudden, was taken part of it was my fault. So let me own something. I didn't put a life vest on. I was moving from a boat to the tower.

22:50I wasn't diving yet. So I didn't have my BCD and everything, and I got taken out, into the ocean pretty far. And it was, the ocean conditions were three foot waves at a four second interval. So every four seconds, I could take a breath, and then I had to inflate my lungs and go under the water and hold it and come back up again. And then my dive prosthetic got ripped off, so I was treading water with one leg and two hands. And a a the the closest coast guard helicopter was, like, ninety minutes away. And luckily, there was a boat nearby, and the boat came and got me and took me back to the tower. Day? Or It was during the no. It definitely during the day.

23:21At night, I would have been dead. I mean, at night, there would have been no finding me. How long ago was that? Last year. No kidding. Oh my god. Maybe a year and a half ago, actually. Okay. Jeez. Dude, that's crazy. Yeah. And I I still do like, my profession was jumping on airplanes in the middle of the night. Like, it takes a lot for me to feel alive, unfortunately. Like, I like, for me to have a fun You're you're an adrenaline junkie? Oh, massive. I mean, my family is too. My my son's five and races motocross. Like, it's the way we're wired. Man. Yeah. You know, go let's go back to when you were in a wheelchair. I mean, you were in a wheelchair for a long time after all this.

23:53I mean, were were there days where you felt like, man, I'm never gonna be, like, Matt again? Like, the Oh. Doing what you're doing now. Yeah. Yeah, man. There there was. So, I was I was stuck in a wheelchair for a while. The VA had issues giving me a prosthetic Yeah. Which we can get into in a little bit. And what I'll what I'll tell you about people in wheelchairs is the we go through the world with not in a wheelchair. And we see wheelchair signs and wheelchair ramps and these things, and we go, oh, there there's things for wheelchairs. The world is not built for wheelchairs. No. They're not. Like, it it is a it is a a constant struggle. The world is not built for wheelchair wheelchairs.

24:28I hated the wheelchair. And I I I've I've really talked about all this stuff because I hope other vets and other people learn from it. If they hear it, they're kinda like, I'm not alone. I've I've people hope, man. It really does. Yes. I routinely threw the wheelchair across the room. Like, I'm I'm a big guy. I'm two forty. I'm built like an Ninja Turtle. Like, I chucked it clear across the house a few times. I mean, it it put holes in walls. Like, I I couldn't deal with it. It it's very hard mentally to go I mean, I don't wanna sound like self labeling, but, like, it's real hard to go from physically awesome to physically limited in in in really a very short amount of time.

25:02Like, you like, it's not like it was it was very sudden. Like, I was awesome a month ago, and now not. So that was hard. The the wheelchair thing was really tough. And what I found was that the ADA rules and, I mean, Academy Dentistry, I mean I mean, American Disabilities Act are just there's no agency that enforces it. No one knows Right. And no one no one everyone pushes limits on it. Like, I can't tell you how many times I went to a fast food restaurant and sat down to go to the bathroom, and I looked over and the the handicap rails ripped off the wall, and they weren't there. And I had to, like, slide off the toilet, get on my knees, do a press up off the toilet into my wheelchair.

25:42Yeah. It it it's crazy. And during all that, and I talk about this really, I did have an attempt on my own life. It's just I couldn't I broke. Now one thing to remember about these things is a lot of times you see people like me and you see me like this. And you're like, you know, he's getting through it. And then you're doing dealing with something, and everyone's everyone's problems are the worst in the world because they're in their lives. Absolutely. Everyone's problems are. Like, just that's the way it is. It's okay to break and cry. Like like like like, I've seen, like, the toughest guy in the world. I promise you, I ball my eyes out. Like Yeah. Ball my eyes out. I'm an emotional guy.

26:16Okay? It's okay to cry. It's okay to get on the edge of quitting. As long as you're moving forward, you might even think in your head you did quit because you slowed down or you're not trying as hard. If you're even progressing a centimeter a day, you have not quit. Absolutely. Man, I how how long from your diagnosis to amputation? I mean, because you go from, like, not knowing anything's going on to having this crazy diagnosis. And and how long did you have to live with that before they took your leg? So part of it was my part of it really upset my doctors. So I'm in a room with my my my my cancer ortho doc. Her her name's doctor Viscaus, Julia Viscaus. She's an amazing human.

26:59I love her to death. And she's like, yeah. We're gonna have to take your leg. We're gonna schedule for next week. I was like, my ass, are. She's like, what do you mean? I was like, first of all, I'm a water guy. It's summertime, and I live by the beach. And it's May, and I'm having one more summer with my leg. I'll wear a knee brace. She I don't recommend that. Like, that's okay, bro. It's not your body. It's mine. And then there was so I I got it done, I think, September that year, and I I had a full summer, like, really full just, like, every day I'm doing something. What what is crazy is is it there's two other crazy facts that one is Energize probably had four employees then, and I couldn't stop selling.

27:33I'm the sales guy. I'm I'm the revenue guy, Energized. I don't sell anymore, but, you know, this is a 100 employees ago. And I couldn't stop. I was I I was in a bed at Duke Cancer Center doing phone calls. A guy named Sean Berdakian in Michigan. I was on a call with him, and he heard, like, a noise in the background because I had a digital background on. He goes, where are you? I'm like, I'm in a hospital bed at a cancer center. He's, we've been talking to me. I was like, I don't have an option, bro. I got people's mortgages. Gotta get paid. Right? Yeah. Other thing was I had an option for a surgery called limb salvage, which I don't recommend. And they were gonna cut my tibia in half, cut my femur in half, put an appliance, like a like a new knee between it, and clean the cancer out.

28:08And I asked the doc. I was like, can I still wrestle and do jujitsu? Goes, She no. You'll have to find a new way to enjoy it, like watching it or something. And I'm like, cut it off. That's yeah. And she's like, really? I'm like, if you cut it off, I can get on the mats with my kids. So my kids are teenagers. I'm wrestling with them. That's not an option in my life. Cut it off. And she's like, Matt, we're not in 18 hundreds. We're go chopping limbs off. This is my body. Cut it off. And that was one of the two options. And she was like, alright. And I don't there's days I hate being an amputee. Like, it's not fun. I don't regret the amputation over the limb salvage.

28:38Because I actually met another dental professional. Say his name. He works at one of the big AI companies, dental, and he did limb salvage. And he knows at some point, limb salvage always turns into an amputation at some point. That's the end. It always does. And that's, like, a 100%. And I knew that was gonna be the end, so I was, well, why not just start it now? Because you can't like, when you do limb salvage, you can't run and do things. You can't put stress on the leg. Right. You're still limited. At least now I have a bionic leg that if it breaks, I just bolt it back together. So, you know, that that takes me to you told me a little bit about your, kind of the body part repossession, you know, and that whole experience.

29:12And how how did that happen? Why did that happen? What did that lead to? Yeah. The VA has got issues. Someday, whenever I sell Energize, five years from now, six years from now, I don't know when it'll be, I'm dedicating the rest of my life and all my resources to advocating for amputees in the VA and fixing fixing VA issues. And I've I've already done a lot of it. And I I've tell you, if you're a vet and you come to me and you're having VA issues, you wanna see someone get upset and get into fighter mode. I'm on the phone with congressman and stuff real fast. And I'm like, I had a buddy of mine just got out, and he had some VA issues.

29:46And I was on the phone with, like, under secretary health assistant pretty quick. And he said, don't know what you did, but everything got fixed. So, basically, I there there was a lot that went along with that. First of all, my my cancer bills went unpaid by the VA for, like, a couple years. They're in collections on my credit bureau. Yeah. So I yeah. Yeah. It it was pretty bad. And then I the the first thing that really happened was it took me seven months or eight months to get my first prosthetic when it's supposed to be ninety days or less because there's a whole psychological thing of, like, getting back on your feet. And during that time, this goes back to me being a fighter and not caring.

30:22I'll I'll just wait. If there's a challenge in front of me and you're part of the challenge, just be ready to get completely ran over like a bulldozer for me to get to my objective. Like, if you're on if you're between me and my objective, it it's gonna be furious. It's just the way I'm wired. Like, just people are like, dude, you're aggressive. I'm like, you're in my way. Sorry, bro. I have my own journey. You have your own journey, and they crossed, it wasn't good. So one problem was my VA center has broken phones. They don't work. You can't call in. What? Yeah. You can go check the Wilmington VA Center Google reviews. You can read all about it. And I would take my wheelchair every Thursday.

30:54The prosthetics guy is only in that building on Thursdays, and I would throw my wheelchair in my truck. I would drive there and sit outside his office every Thursday. He'd come out like, what's up? I'm like, where's my leg at, bro? He's like, oh, we're, you know, we're working on it. I'm like, alright. See you next Thursday. He's like, you doing this every Thursday? I'm like, I got nothing else to do. I'm sitting in a wheelchair. Like, what do you want to do? I'll sit here with my phone, surf the Internet, stand outside your office. I'll sit outside your office all day long. To me, it's like I don't want you to forget. Like, you're I'm not going away, man. And it still took seven or eight months, but then the prosthetics they were giving me didn't work.

31:23They didn't fit me properly. They fell off. So we got to a semi fitting prosthetic that fell off kinda intermittently, which is scary too because you go to take a step and your leg kinda jettisons, and you're like, woah, and you fall. Right? So I'm in the prosthetics place that So so when you're in the VA, you have your prosth your prosthetist who like the like, kinda sets things up and does purchase orders. Then you go to an outside vendor who builds your leg. So I'm at the outside vendor and I they take my leg in the back and they bring it out. And my old ankle is on it, not my new ankle. They upgraded. I'm like, what's up, bro? And he's like, oh, the VA never paid us, so we had to take it back.

31:53I'm like, you're repossessing my foot in my ankle? On. Well, you wanna see a dude get furious? K. I didn't take it I didn't I didn't scream at him. When I say furious, I I should really say determined. Okay? That was it. It was on. The VA just crossed the line. I'm like, and if I'm if this is happening to me, it's happening to other people. The moment other people are being mistreated and I'm either part of it or like somehow associated to it or it's my community, I instantly wanna fight for it. Like, my warrior my warrior spirit comes out. And I was like, this isn't going down this way. So I went on a social media rampage, and the VA got bombarded with letters.

32:33And the local director called me. He's like, can you stop the letters? I was like, when you fix your problems and you're not failing anymore. I will. Well, you you're saying I'm the failure? I'm like, you're the leader. Everything is your failure. So yeah. And there's a whole lot with that story. And if you wanna dig more into it, I'm all about it. Just ask me more questions. Yeah. Just tell me about like, didn't you didn't you testify before congress about all this? Yeah. I did. How it's impacted VA and and veterans moving forward? Yeah. Yeah. There's some backstory with that. It's pretty interesting stuff. So Yeah. The the there was a big problem. The the VA is divided into regions. My region is VISEN 6.

33:09It's veteran in service network six. And I started figuring out this was a pretty big problem. And, you know, all of us veterans is a small community. We're 1% of the voting population. Right? Veteran amputees, even smaller. So I would be in a waiting room with other vet amputees, and I started a WhatsApp chat. And I'd be like, what are you waiting for? They'd tell me. I I said, well, let me add this WhatsApp chat just so we all can talk. And I was like, when you meet somebody who's waiting for something, you add that. So I got this thing up to, like, 80 plus people. All waiting for prostheses? All waiting for prostheses Jeez. Different kinds. So now, for my Visen, I have a large percentage of their patient load for direct feedback loop.

33:51I am now their indirect boss whether they like it or not. Like, whether you like it or not, dude, I'm your accountability partner, and we're we're together now. Like, I'm not ever backing off. So it took me two years to get the prosthetic I was supposed to have. And the entire time, I started documenting everything. So with my covert surveillance background and some other stuff, I had not to sound like Liam Neeson in that stupid movie, but had a particular set of skills, and they were the worst skills the VA could ever deal with. So, like like, you had this guy who is like wrong guy, man. Yeah. Like, I'm the guy, man. Like, you you picked the wrong one. And it's like, I'm I'm not stopping.

34:28So there's a bag in the special operations combatives program. We have a lot of there's a bag we have. It's called the sock pee bag, and it has a a surveillance element to it. And I basically wore a hidden camera for two years documenting all this. And I wrote a narrative, and I packaged it all up. And I sent it up to a couple different organizations. This group called the Independence Fund got their hands on it. And they were like, you know, we're gonna get this to under secretary of health. And they did. And it kinda like kicked off an investigation. There's two kinds of investigations in the VA. One is the inspector general, which happens in a lot of places in the government. Then there's one called a a medical inspector's investigation, which is the the worst one the VA can have.

35:05And that kinda kicked off. And I got to have a meeting with leadership for our region. And I met with some leadership, and I was in an office. And I they they were, you know, mister Brown, our average delivery time is sixty days, and you're an outlier, and we apologize about that. They're telling me all this stuff. And I'm, like, listening. And I'm like, well, you know, I'm like, do you know the average Google rating for a VA center in your area? And I went through and did the research. I found every now I'm a social I'm a social media company. Yeah. Right? Like like, I can create publicity. I can track how much you suck. Like, I'm like really not a good person to deal with in this scenario.

35:41And I was like, do you know it? And they were was like deer in headlights. Like, no. I'm like, 2.7 stars. And they're like, oh, I would buy dog food for my dog at 2.7 stars. I shouldn't have to accept your health care at 2.7 stars. That's shocking, man. That is And then they said this to me, Jim, which you'll you'll find fascinating as a dentist. They said, well, it's really hard for a medical professional to get a good Google rating. I was like, you're What? Total wrong guy now. I'm like, at the time, Energize was responsible. This was two years into cancer. We grew a lot. I I think we're responsible for 200 dental practices, digital reputation. And I said, my practice has averaged 4.5 stars.

36:17That's the most feared expensive provider in the country. What's your excuse? So then they kept going on about their delivery times. I said, okay. Let's figure this out. Let's see if you're math maths. And, like, looking at me, I'm like, what is your patient load in this region? It was, like, 360 or something for for the level of need I had. Like, was my level of need, like, 300 plus. That many in in just that area. That's Well, the area covered Fayetteville, Jacksonville, Wilmington. It was a good good chunk of North Carolina. You have to remember, you have Fort Bragg there. You have the the two Marine Corps bases. Like, you have a lot of veterans settle in this area with a lot of battle experience, especially Fort Bragg.

36:55It's it's the home of the airborne, the special operations universe. Right? So I'm like, okay. Well, let's go through some patients' names. And they're like looking at me. I took my phone out and I was like, this guy waiting for this. His his running blade for a year and a half. What's up with that? And they're like, look, I just started going through names. How do you have all of our patients information what they're waiting for? That's a HIPAA violation. I'm like, it's HIPAA violation if you give it to me. That's right. If they give it to me They give it's voluntary. To me. Yeah. They gave it to me. Well, how did you get to them? Like, guys, this this community is small. I can touch every single patient you have.

37:25I'm like, so if I have 80 plus waiting for stuff, you're saying your average delivery is sixty days, but you have 300 plus patients roughly. The math does a math, man. And they were like, are you ever going away? I said, no. Never. Not in a million years. And they're like, really? I'm like, I am your new boss. I am your accountability partner. And I I have pretty good resources in the world. And I said, I will do everything up to putting your faces on billboards. And they were they were just shocked. So so from that, the independence fund handed up my information to the undersecretary of health of The United States. They came down like, you wanna testify in front of congress. I was like Wow.

38:01For sure. Dude, that's I'm in. And I I did the the person that questioned me the most was Morgan Luttrell, who is Marcus Luttrell's brother. Marcus Luttrell was the lone survivor from Operation Red Wing and the movie Lone Survivor and the book Lone Survivor. His brother and him both were SEALs. One was an officer who was enlisted. Yeah. They actually really cool fact. They have a a Navy SEAL Trident. Each of them have half on their back tattooed. And when they come together, put their arms around each other, it completes. Easy. So Morgan Morgan had a question to me. And for me, if you go look up the the testimony, it's pretty moving. Like I said, I I am an emotional guy. And I I was crying.

38:37It was for me, it was not a finish line, but it was a, like, a it was a it was a climbing I made it to one of the summits of the mountain. And and and the summit, it was a lot of pain. It it caused a lot of stress in my marriage. My my kids had seen things, seen a version of me that I wish they had never seen. I think one of my I think my oldest daughter, she was there very very aware of a lot of it. I think I think for her, it was very hard on her to see daddy go from walking in the wheelchair to angry. And for me to make it to testifying was a big deal. And the first five minutes of my testimony, couldn't pull together.

39:11And Morgan Luttrell was like and Marcus was that was Morgan Luttrell. He was like What was his position at that point? Like He was a congressman. He was a congressman in in one of the districts in Texas. Okay. Really I mean, really remarkable human. I I really like him a lot. And he said, hey, man. Calm down. He said, listen. Two baddest dudes in this room right now are me and you. He's like, no one else in the room can say they've done this stuff. He's like, relax. He's like, pull it together. Tell your story. And I did the best I could. And if you watch it, it's really it was really tough experience for me, but it was really rewarding. So but there's been a lot of changes since that testimony though, which is How long ago was that, Matt?

39:47Man, that's gotta be three years ago now. Okay. I mean, this is that's recent, dude. That's recent. As a result of all of that, I mean, has anything changed with the VA? Do you feel like there's been progress as a result of this, like, horrible situation you were in? No. There's been a lot of progress, and the progress is continuing. And I'm still keeping track a lot of a lot of it. There was a stupid rule the VA had that for you to get an active living prosthetic, specialized swim prosthetic, specialized running prosthetic, you had to first demonstrate you could use it. Okay. Which makes no sense because they're custom built for you. Yeah. Right. So what? Somebody else is gonna get it? Like, I'm Like, how does this work?

40:24Right? That rule that rule got changed immediately. Stupid. There was also a I needed a specialized socket. So what happens your socket is what goes on your stump. Okay? I say stump just so you all listeners know. Amputees don't love the word stump. It's a stump, but they like to call it a residual limb to be PC. I call it a stump. If So you're talking to me, stump's fine. Other amputees get weird about it. So my problem is I'm ultra active compared to most amputees. You see me at dental events walking the whole floor, like Oh, dude. Yeah. Yeah. I'm on the move. Right? Yeah. And when I would go do Brazilian jiu jitsu with my gi on, I would go on the mats, wrestle for two hours, dump a ton of water weight, come off the mats, go to put my leg on it, it wouldn't fit.

41:05So there's a a prosthetic company's name is Corum. The the prosthetic's name is Quattro. It's a specialized socket that can account for volume changes. And it it's not adjustable like with straps. Adjustable these, like, these lattice pads that can go in and out. So it, like, can hug your leg and loosen and tighten, and you can control it. Kidding. Oh my cool. It's really, And really I actually, do I have one of the pads on my desk? I don't. Usually, I do. Usually, I have something. No. Don't. Oh, yeah. I how far that's come. I mean, but Yeah. One year ago. This is one of the pads. So I can change these. There's different thicknesses. But if you look at them, the pad kinda like has a lattice structure.

41:43For the listeners, it's a black pad. Like, this is a thicker one for a different part of my prosthetic. So, like, I had a problem. I would have to take my wheelchair to jujitsu, wheel it in the room walking, and then wheel out holding my holding my prosthetic and trying to use my arms. It was just a mess, and they were fighting it. Well, after I had a guy named Joe owns the company, we've become really close. I've I've broken his prosthetics and stuff. I've kinda become the test bed for his prosthetics. And he called me. I was actually traveling to Seattle to meet with Burkart, the distributor company that's on the West Coast. I was actually traveling to a meeting with them, and it was it was, like, three days after I testified.

42:25And he called me and thanked me. He said, hey, man. The VA just offered us a national contract for the quatro. Oh my god. He's like he's like, you didn't just help my company. You helped Dennis. But I'm very thankful. And I I, like, I really care about this the company Quorum. I really I really care about it a lot. They're they're they're pushing the limits pretty heavily on prosthetics technology, and they're they're trying to really improve lives. I really believe in the company. But I I changed that rule. A national contract had been offered to them. Now that national contract, the VA moved so slow that it'll take three years for it to become active. It should be active here soon. But during that time, I got exposed to a lot of people.

43:02There's a guy named Brooks Tucker, another remarkable person. He was the the director of the entire department of the VA under Trump one for a period of time. Ended resigning, I think, or or left. I can't remember how he ended it. But he said some stuff to me. It was really shocking. And one was, when he said this, it, like, hit me pretty hard. There was a problem. He said, and every taxpayer, I don't care if you're left, right, center. I don't care what your political view is. You should be really irritated by this to your money. The second largest line item on the national budget behind DOD is the VA. The VA services 1% of the voting population. It is the and the way you said to me, man, is this is the largest care network in the world with the smallest patient load.

43:45How does I mean, how does that happen? I mean, what where's the waste? What's what's going on? People don't realize it. It's a union organization. K. And when mister Brooks when Brooks was in in in in in office, and I hope I get this right, they Trump had given him a chunk of money, like a good chunk, and said, please fix the VA. And and Brooks is a veteran. Brooks is a former lieutenant colonel, marine, really, really smart guy. And he went to start hiring and firing and changes, and the union said, no. No. No. Wait a minute. You don't get to do any of that. You give us the money and we'll do it. Well, in a normal in a normal medical scenario from the research I've done is it's one clinician to three support people.

44:24The VA is one to 12. Woah. Talk about waste. Holy shit. I mean, what are all those extra people doing? That's that's nuts. And think about it. It's one to twelve and the phones are broken to this day still at my VA center. You can't call in. I mean, van all be going down to the veterans. It should all be going down to the the people who need prosthetics. I mean, my god. And this will upset you more. The director of that center is getting paid bonuses for unusually low wait times because people can't call in and make appointments. So what is what is the motivation for that director to fix those phones? So why I mean, you brought all this to light. You brought all this to light.

45:01Why aren't they doing anything about it? I mean, isn't there somebody in charge of this who should be outraged and fix it? Yeah. There's a lot that are. The union blocks a lot of stuff. You also have administrative changes every four years because of the presidency, and they swap people in and out. So you you're kinda getting this new person with a new initiative every four years, and the VA isn't getting fixed on a four year period. The real issue, what it really comes down to, is the VA is more loyal to itself than the patient. So the VA has this bureaucracy and these policies and these things you have to do. And the VA is loyal to that process being followed no matter what.

45:39But, like, you're a dentist, you're a medical provider. Right? You can't apply things to all patients the same way. Absolutely. Need levels are different. Right? And they they try to. And it's like, no. This this this doesn't work. Right? Like, you can't do this. They wanted me to wait three months to go to Duke Cancer Center to pay for it. Like, I had to go through an approval process. And luckily, I I I was had the ability, and I just said, well, I'm going tomorrow. And I guess I'll just pay for my appointments out of pocket. And they'll even though if you need it, they'll never retro pay you. Also, this was actually interesting. There is this was another issue, and this was bizarre to me.

46:11There is a policy inside the VA that if you need something up to I think it's $20,000, and it the need is said you need it. If you pay for it yourself, they're supposed to reimburse you. And I was on the phone. I was on a video call with some leaders of the VA. I said, my my my my socket's about $15,000. Okay. I'm like, what? I found so first first, I said so I I'm really good at trapping people in conversations and leaving them no way out. Really good at it. So I had this person on there and I said, well, I'll just go buy it and get reimbursed or you just reimburse me. And she was like, oh, no. No. We can't do that.

46:44It's not allowed. There's no way we can't do that. I said, okay. Well, VA provision sixteen five dash four says that up to $15,000, I'm allowed to be reimbursed. And she's, well, I've never seen that before. I'm like, well, it exists. It's right here. So I'll go I'll go do it, and you pay me back. She goes, mister Brown, please please don't do that. And what? She's like, there is no mechanism in the system to to follow that and reimburse you. There is we do not have a way to facilitate that reimbursement. I can tell you for sure that doesn't exist. Like, that provision might exist. That that that might be on paper. But I will promise you there's no way there's not a mechanism to reimburse you your money.

47:15And with my prosthetics place in Colorado, Coral, they actually had the purchase order for my prosthetic for over a year, and no one knew it. And it expired because they needed more information from the VA than ever gave them. So I could have had my prosthetic a year earlier. Wow. How long do you think you'd get get it then? I mean, I Two years. It was two years. I was thinking it was that seven month period when you were the wheelchair. Months in a wheelchair with no prosthetic. Yeah. And then It was so you had a one that just didn't work for you for, like, the next year and a half or whatever. Yeah. And one that just was almost useless. I mean, crazy thing is, I mean, all this time, you're also growing a business.

47:51I mean, you've got a company and you're having to sell and all that kind of stuff. And I I mean, I know you shared with me a little bit about, like, how you started the company, but with no dental background. I mean, what made you think you could just, like, jump in and start doing dental marketing? I used jump out of airplanes in middle of the night. I didn't care. I used jump out into the dark sky and and not know what was below me. Like, you know what mean? Like terrified. You know what I terrified. Mean? No way. Like, you know what I mean? Like, was like, hey. What are we doing tonight? And and sometimes, like, hey. What are we doing tonight? We're jumping out in bad weather.

48:19Why? Because sometimes this happens in bad weather. Right? Like and, you know, I had two parachute accidents, and I just I I'm kinda like, well, see what What happens. Do define parachute accident? I had a my my bad one was I had a midair collision in October 2010, got wrapped up in someone else's parachute. I fell I I had a to be clear, I I I had 25% lift capability, so I was moving 75% faster. And I hit the ground, broke my back two places, brain injury, herniated discs in my neck. Yeah. That was my second year of death experience in the military. Both from a parachute accidents. And, yeah, that it sucked. I mean, it sucked. Those and that, you know, everyone thinks I lost my leg that way too.

48:57I don't know why, but, yeah, that sucks. I mean, yeah, being ex military and and special ops and all the crazy things you did, I mean, that that's just the natural assumption, you know, for it to depend, you know, what what it was. It just surprises people, I think. Yeah. But, you know, what was your original question? Because I kinda go off on a tangent. No. You know, I was just I was just wondering. I mean, like jumping into dentistry. I just say, know, I'm be a freaking marketing in dentistry. Yeah. It's like So why dentistry and Really funny story, actually. Oh, man. Me and my business partner, Ryan Rabel, who is as close to probably the second person close to me in my world is my wife.

49:31We do everything together. I mean, between the two of us. I have met him. He's a he's a great guy. Just a great guy. Ryan's a great guy. You know, it's not it was easy to go into business with friends, and you two have have not only, like, excelled, but your friendship's probably stronger than it's ever been too, isn't And he and he he he support like, the whole time I was going through mental breaks and everything, he supported me. He was there. I was still working, but he was Yeah. A big a big support structure. Right? So really funny story. We owned a Brazilian jiu jitsu school together. It was the largest in Eastern Carolinas, probably. And So he practices too? No. Does. He's just Oh.

50:04Really good at math and numbers and scaling things. And I'm good at talking. He's good at everything else. Like, I'm energized. I'm a talking head for the company, and I I handle the sales team and stuff. If if you're an energized client listening and your practice is growing and the magic of us booking the appointments and stuff every month for you, Ryan Reibold, architect. I I have an idea. I'm like, have this idea. And Ryan will be like, I'll be right back. And then three weeks later, he'll come back with it. I'm like, I could've never done that. You're amazing. Dude, what a great partnership. I mean, you you just complement each other so well. Like Best partnership ever. Like, I could never ask for a better business partner.

50:37So one day, I'm wakeboarding with my uncle who's a dentist. It's my wife's uncle, really talented dentist. His name's Wesley Kandair. He owns a practice in Chesapeake, Virginia called the Comfort Dentist. He's a sedation dentist. And, I mean, just really talented, clinically talented dentist, and just a great human, amazing chairside manner. Like, I I I couldn't think anyone to use as a better example of a warm person in a in a operatory. And we're out wakeboarding together, and I was a spokesperson for a martial arts marketing company. I would go to I would go to shows like me and you do, but for martial arts and talk about sales process and your practice and grow or in your gym and and growing Yeah. Wow. And he turned to me and goes, don't you do something with marketing?

51:16And I'm like, nah. It's like a spokesperson. And he goes, man, I'm paying 1,500 a month for my dental website. And I was like, what? He was like, yeah. And I'm like, those are real estate numbers. I'm like, that's crazy to talk to me. And I started digging into it, and I discovered the concept of the dental tax where you guys just get overcharged for the word dental. Just hammered. If it says dental on it, quadruple the price. Everything. The price. And Yeah. When I saw that, I was like, wait a minute. There's an opportunity here to help people and make a fair living Oh, we get it. And not gouge people. Yeah. And I was like, I'm looking into this. And I I I I just decided that moment, there's I I started googling.

51:52Like, I got I got off the wakeboarding boat, and we're on vacation. My wife's family, mean, I'm I'm on my phone. Like, I'm I'm learning. I'm like, there's something here. There has to be. And I called my business partner. We're driving home from Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia, and I'm like, we're getting to dental. He's like, yeah, man. Just like that. Yep. I said, dental what? I'm like, dental marketing. He goes, we don't know anything about both. Like, nope. Nope. We don't. He's like and he kinda has an attitude of like, alright, Matt. I'll follow you. Let's do this. Wow. Wow. So we got home and we started planning it out, and me and him executed and energized us here now. And I've been on stage and people ask me, like, how do you come up with this stuff?

52:24And I'm very transparent. I'm like, I'm not qualified to be here. I have no background. You are listening at your own risk. Okay? Now, the stuff I do apparently is very effective because a lot of people pay me for it. Yeah. But I don't wanna be a fraud. Like, I don't know. Like, you know, and and people ask me, like, technical Google Ads questions. I got a team of Google Ads people. I'm like, I don't know. Those those people in that room over there, they do it. Yeah. They talk to them. Yeah. How how do SciOps factor into it? So that it's so funny. I energize. It comes up so much. So I was not a psyops operative. My very best friends are, though. My friend, Lugan Gulik, is a psyops op or was a psyops operative.

53:00My buddy my my very best friend in the world, a buddy my name named Juan Perez was. And there's a special secret psyops unit called ninth Bravo Special Missions Unit. And I got to spend a lot of time with those guys. I trained them, and I learned a lot about psyops. And, like, me and we're talking earlier. We have a document at Energize called the Dental Battlefield. We plan everything out there, strategic partners, objectives, what does the terrain look like, who are the competitors. And I'm not gonna lie that we deploy some SIOPs navigating the industry in the marketplace. And I'll I'll be honest, and I have no problem saying this. Dental Unfiltered is a great resource for the industry, but Dental Unfiltered as a concept started out as a SIOPs product.

53:41Now to not sound nefarious, there's three kinds of psyops in the military. There's black, gray, and white. Black is like this. And this is a true story. A buddy of mine ran a mission. They went and killed a bad terrorist at night. They found a cell phone. Had all the other bad terrorist names in it. K? Mhmm. They had six more dudes in that area of Afghanistan or Iraq and where they were where they were on their list. No one knows this guy is dead yet. Yeah. They take his phone out and he text they text other terrorists, and they're saying these six guys are working with the Americans. Well, within forty eight hours, those six guys were dead. No one else had to do it but them.

54:13Wow. That's black Gray psyops is, like, somewhere in between, like, your Gray's a little harder to ex explain. Oh, black psyops also, the secretary of defense has to approve black psyops. They can never be used on US soil. There's a whole bunch of rules with how that works. Gray psyops is like maybe manipulating a country or populace to do something you wanted to do that is in your benefit. Mhmm. White psyops is different. White psyops is like you work in an embassy in, like, a South American country, and you do a psyops campaign and product on, like, teen pregnancy. Okay. Dental unfiltered was a white psy ops product. We discovered that the way you guys approach business is very flawed, and your thinking is very flawed.

54:59And whenever a client would get to us, it was a large amount of convincing and swaying them to their proper thinking. So I had an idea one day of like, well, let's create a podcast and make it popular and condition the marketplace to think the way we think before they get to us. Beautiful. But the the conditioning, though, wasn't like, let me brainwash you. It was like, let's improve the dentist. Right? And the book, the podcast, everything is about like, I I could have sponsors. Like, I I get approached all the time. You mentioned approach all the time. And I'm like, no. There's no you cannot buy me. You cannot buy dental unfiltered. It's impossible. I I said it in your intro. I mean, it's what gives you a lot of what gives you credibility.

55:39I mean, you're you're out there. You're providing free value for dentists who listen to you. Anybody who listens to you is learning. And by the way, if you impact how they think, you're helping them make better decisions. I mean, we're no different as dentists. We are trying to communicate with patients in a way that helps them make good decisions. And and so it's all about getting to that endpoint. And, you know, however you get there, I mean, that that's gotta be the endpoint. Yeah. And it it what's what's really rewarding for me is I I was on an airplane recently. My business partner was with me. He wouldn't sometimes he's like, I don't know if people really you know, sometimes he's kinda skeptical. I'm very I'm a sales guy.

56:18So I exaggerate a little bit. Right? And I I do get asked for selfies at dental events and stuff. And I'm I'm walking on an airplane. My business partner's behind me. And this guy pulls on my shirt. I'm, what's up? And he turns his phone around. He says, I'm listening to you right now. No way. Holy cow. And I was I was to be transparent, I was not leaving a dental event. I was not flying, leaving midwinter. Yeah. It was just random plane full of dentists going home. Yeah. I've been I've been recognized in two random places in public that weren't dental, and this is one of them. And he said, your last episode on KPIs and metrics completely changed the way I look at my practice.

56:53Thank you. And my best partner is like, I would have never believed you, bro. Would have never believed you. Yeah. Thank god he was there. He got to hear it. I was in a stadium in Philadelphia for, like, a sporting event or something, and this guy had nachos and a beer in his hand. And I was wearing a dental unfiltered shirt, by the way. And he kinda, like, walked up real fast. He's like, are you Matt Brown from dental unfiltered? I am. He's like, dude, I love your podcast. And I'm like, really? He's like, dude. He's like and and the podcast, it it's pretty brutal. Like, listen, dentist. I tell you all the time on the podcast, you're stupid because you do this. Whatever it is.

57:24Right? And I think that's important for the delivery. Tell me is, man. Yeah. I think it's important for the delivery. But, like, yeah, I've I get recognized out in public. It's it's weird. Being dental famous is like being famous for, like, hopscotch. It's kinda weird. Right? It's it's like it's like my daughter thinks I'm a famous YouTuber. And I'm like, no. No. No. Just dental. And she she tells me I pick her up from school and, like, what do your dad what's your dad do? He's a he's a YouTuber. And they're like, really? Like, no. I'm not a YouTuber. Let's not let's not let's not perpetuate that rumor. But yeah. I mean, when I started getting recognized, the first one I was ever recognized was the American Academy Clear Aligners event, like, three or four years ago.

57:57And, like, two or three dentists were in the crowd, and they're like, dude, podcast. Now we're, like, 200 plus episodes, and we have three shows on the channel. Woah. I forgot about three shows. So 200 on the one channel and and how So it's one it's one channel with 200 episodes. Okay. We have three shows on it because I wanted to make sure we provided a a product. Because you guys you guys are different brains. Like, there there's different versions of you. K? Yeah. There there's the there's the business plentiful mindset version. Right? There's usually a little bit more of an extrovert. And and that's a smaller portion of the population. If you look at, like, your dental classmates, like, you were probably one of two people who were an extrovert.

58:35Right? Like, your classmates are pretty quiet. We we had a handful and we're the ones who stay in touch today, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Right? A lot of people. Yeah. But then on the other side, there is very clinically focused docs that are clinical geeks. Yeah. And we have Dental Unfiltered, the main show, which is me and doctor Valo or I bring on guests. I'm the primary host. Then there's Clinical Unfiltered with, doctor Sasha. He's a a board certified periodontist, super clinical guy. He happens to also be an extrovert and like clinical. So there's a clinical show on the channel for if you wanna learn about clinical stuff, new equipment, new stuff, new procedures. He brings on oral surgeons, all kinds of stuff. But then there's another show, which I think is a heavy need.

59:16Maybe even more of a need than Dental Unfiltered itself. It's called Management Unfiltered. And it's Zach, Shelley, and Kirk teach out. Man, I love Kirk. Kirk and I are in a mastermind together. We just spent a few days together in Dallas. Crazy. Kirk are real actually, had a call in today. Me and Kirk are real close. Yeah. And the reason why we felt there was a need for management of Filtered is one, there's not enough resources out there for dental managers or dental front desk, the support staff. Like, there's five times more of them than you. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. So that show is actually focused on them and giving them valuable information that's gonna help them. And the relationship of them and the doc. Oh, god.

59:51That's beautiful. That's Yeah. Because that's brilliant concept. A listen. That relationship, eight out of 10 times is an f'd up dis dysfunctional relationship. Like, you think it's good. Outside looking in, you guys got a bad marriage. Like, I'm hanging out in your practice. I'm watching you too. Like, bro, how does this work? Dysfunctional. Very dysfunctional. Right? Yeah. And we thought there was a need for it. So we have yeah. So we have three shows with three different audiences, really. But, like, doc that listens can, like, wander on the Management Unfiltered and learn it. Like, we've had Kelly Schwartz on a few times. Some people know him. Some people don't know He's a big brain. Yeah. We've had we we have a lot of people. We've had people on about insurance processing, verification, people about insurance audits, which is so overlooked.

1:00:30Like, that's an important subject no one ever talks about. Absolutely. Yeah. So, you know, if if you get on there, the variety of content for a dentist is pretty heavy. And then the the book, it it kinda just came out in pre release. It's coming out in final release. Well, that's right. I can't wait to see that. Yeah. I'll get you a pre release copy. Cool. And the book kinda goes along the book is another SIOPs product, to be clear, but it's a white SIOPs product to benefit the marketplace. And, you know, I don't wanna sound like this, and I I get in trouble when I say this on stage. I I think nine out of 10 dental books are crap. Like, I I gotta read them.

1:01:00I I would agree with that. Yeah. And it's like I I get them sent to me all the time. I have my my favorite one though is my friend Alan Sterns. I love Alan's book. I I I love Alan Stern. He's he's another just great guy. I mean, you you do such a good job. You you pick the right people in the industry. Yeah. Everybody you associate with is just a quality human, and he's one I try to really pick there's some BS. I try to pick through the BS. Right? Sure. So, you know, the the book, I wanted it to be something dentists would use repeatedly. And when I would read other dental books, usually, they're wrote by a coach or somebody on their philosophy of running a practice.

1:01:35And there's a lot of vague, very large concepts in it, but no execution, no step by step, no hand holding. Yeah. At the end, it kinda always ends with something like, you know, schedule a call with me. I'll spend time. And it's a big sales tool. Sure. Dental Unfiltered has no revenue. There's no product to sell. Yeah. It's not listen. I don't even say the word Energize on the show. Mhmm. Like, as a as a rule, there's no Energize logo. It doesn't say brought to you by Energize. I don't wear Energize shirts on the show. The show is not about my company. The show is about dentists. Well, the book is really interesting because you don't read from chapter one to chapter 20. You you open up an index and you say, okay, wanna learn about Google reviews.

1:02:11I wanna learn about on like, we have a chapter about onboarding an associate. So this is like a practical tool that Yeah. Dentists can use to just do shit better. Yeah. It's it's modeled after a military field manual. It's it's almost modeled after the Ranger manual, to be honest. Like like, the Ranger handbook is what I was thinking about. Like, this is the dentist handbook. Like, it's it's the Ranger handbook for dental. And you can go to a you go to a chapter, you read about it. And it is step by step. It is like, if you go to the Google review one, it is like, this is how you ask for Google reviews. This is how many you should be getting. These are the questions you ask before you ask for the Google review.

1:02:46Like, it is step by step. But what's really interesting is, this is my favorite part of the book, you get to the end of the chapter and there's a QR code. And you scan the QR code, and then you listen to the podcast of me and doctor Vallo talking about the subject. Yeah. What a oh my god. And everybody learns differently. So to get it both ways like that is it's brilliant. It's audiobook in reverse. Wow. Yeah. I mean, that's totally unique. I've never heard of anything like that. I don't know if I don't know if there's any other books like that based on podcasts. Yeah. It it's it's a one of a kind in dentistry. And I it's been out there's a we did a pre release at Dental Boost Camp, Paul Paul Goodman's event, which, by the way, my favorite event of the year.

1:03:27And I announced on stage, like, come see me. I have copies of the book. And there was a line waiting. I didn't I didn't expect people to just come by the booth and say hi and ask for a copy. No. No. They were gone in, like, five minutes. I didn't even have a copy. Had to give away my copy. Amazing. And a guy named Mike Scruggs, really good doc. He had said some nice stuff about it online. Another doc that I know, Brita, she recently sent me a picture of, like, her poolside reading it. And she called me. She said, I know your goal was, like, for this to be a reference guide and, like, sit on a doc's desk so they can go back over and over again and use it.

1:03:59And she's like, you did it. She's like, I love this book because if I read half of it, I don't have to go back and read a quarter of it to get back on track again. She's like, you you should you you you achieved what you wanted. And she's like, it is if you're ADD, this is an easy read. Man. Yeah. I honestly, that's that's phenomenal. What a resource. I mean, it's It's called dental unfiltered guide to being a badass practice owner. See, Matt, you know, when you when you put out all this kind of free content, creating all this value for so many people without anything expected in return. It brings people into your sphere of influence. It brings people into, you know, ask about Energize.

1:04:34And, I mean, it's it's just beautiful, and it's the way it should be. You know, clearly, you guys know a lot about a lot of things, especially when you got three different podcasts, you know, running, you know, to all these different constituencies. But it's only natural that they come to you and say, hey, man. Alright. You know a lot. What are you gonna do for our marketing? And I I mean, it's gotta be one of the reasons why you guys have grown so quickly. Yeah. And it's you know, our we have really good case presentation and case acceptance training. I do it all over the country. We've never never charged for it once. I never will. I think it's a really needed subject. I think it's important.

1:05:05I think docs suck at it. I think office managers think they're good at it, and they're actually really bad at it. I think PPO culture in the marketplace is really bad. If present a crown now or crown next year, I think that's not good for the patient. It's not good for the I think we have to be problem. Yeah. I I think we have to be insurance says you can do, basically. Yeah. Yeah. I think PPO culture shouldn't dictate care. And Yeah. My my presentation training is really about beating PPO culture. And there's tools of accessibility in in the practice that people don't focus on to get people accessible to treatment, and they're overlooked, like financing, membership programs, And and we focus a lot on that.

1:05:36But, you know, we have a also, Dental Unfiltered has a virtual study club with 500 dentists in it, and people don't realize that. And we have webinars every single month. We just had one with Spencer Greer. We have one coming up with Avi Patel, Clear Liner Advisors. I just I was just with him last night in Chicago. We were in town, ADSL. One of my best friends. Just a a great guy. Really amazing guy. We we did some stuff together. There's a guy named Aaron Nicholas or Aaron nickel Aaron Nicholas. He teaches being efficient in the operatory. He actually times procedures and finds seconds for you then retimes them. He has a different approach. We're gonna do one with him in in a couple months.

1:06:11But if you're part of the study club and it's free, you know, we offer the webinars there. Kelly Schwartz is done online. Oh, we just had our best one we ever had was Laura Nelson. Just did one. We had over a 100 people in it in the webinar. And and we offer free CE. Like like, you can come to Dental to get free CE virtual. Like, not every webinar is CE, but some of them turn into CE. Yeah. So like, Dental Unfiltered has this ecosystem, and we've created these like you said, you know, quality people. We've created these educational partners like Laura Nelson. Like, I I I don't know anyone. She's the she's the queen of front desk. Yeah. Right? And then if you wanna do a start up, ideal practices, number one start up for in the country, Stacy Peterson, who's the director.

1:06:49She's basically number two in command. Me and her go way back. You know, I teach for them. She teaches for me in the in the webinar series, and she's been on the podcast. Like, we we because we're not beholden to sponsorships Mhmm. I can do whatever I want. Yeah. Like like, you know, Lar if I was sponsored by Weave, right, and Laura Nelson's associated with Mango, right, and I had Laura Nelson on the show, Weave might have a problem. Yeah. Yeah. I get that. I don't have to deal with the politics of that. Yeah. Absolutely. That's a beautiful thing. You know, I look back to you know, you told me about, like, time you spend in front offices, like learning all the things. I mean, what was that like?

1:07:26I mean, a guy who has, you know, you're just, you know, hand to hand combat guy jumping off freaking airplanes in the middle of the night and everything, going into a dental office and, like, sitting at the front desk and doing all that. What what was that experience like, and what what did you learn from it? It was intimidating, to be honest. Interesting. It was a different you know, first of these women have hard jobs. Mhmm. And they get very good at them. Mhmm. And I'm there, and I'm in the way. And I have to become a ghost on the wall and just listen and never be in their way. Like, I have to anticipate they're turning out of the operatory. I can't be in their way.

1:07:57Yeah. I have to anticipate we're at the front desk. She's answering phones. I can't talk. I have to for for me to be welcome at that front desk, I have to make sure I don't hinder operations in any way. Right? That was the first thing I knew. Like, knew, like, if I'm gonna be welcome here, for these women to trust me and feel okay with me being around, it's kinda like akin to, like, observing. I don't wanna get in trouble for saying this. Observing animals like the Serengeti, if you're a researcher. You have to earn their trust and get close to them and not infringe anthropologists, basically. And not infringe on their environment Yeah. To really observe and learn. And I knew that that had to happen first.

1:08:30I knew, like, I have to understand how this place flows, how it works. In the beginning, I just stood my back against the wall away from the front desk and watched these women run back and forth. And then I knew kinda like how the flow worked. Right? And then I sat next to him. And what I learned very rapidly, and I think Dennis overlooked And Dennis, please listen to me carefully when I say this. The most important employee in that practice is the front desk person. So the gateway to everybody. Second is, I believe they have the hardest job, even over the dentist. Absolutely. That poor woman has two screens in front of her, 20 tabs open, six pieces of software, an angry patient's head floating over those two screens and the phone going off.

1:09:08She is the air traffic controller of that practice. And I identified that pretty quick. And I said, this is the person I need to learn from and spend time with. She is where everything connects is her. Not the office manager. Not the doc. They're extensions. She is the heart. She's the hub. And once I identified that, I just sat next to the office front desk people, and I was like, hey, listen. I'll be your lackey, your your errand boy today. You want bottled water? I'll go get it open for you. You want lunch order done? I will take the menu around, do the lunch order. Just teach me. I will do all the little ancillary crap that you don't wanna do that I am capable of doing.

1:09:44Mhmm. Just teach me. And I was pretty welcome, and it was, like, three or four offices. I spent every Monday for about six months learning about the front desk. I learned a lot. I mean the biggest surprise, like, through that process? Like, what what were you like, holy crap. Why is this happening? A couple things were. So first of all, was dental financing. I didn't realize you could do that. If you think your patients know that you can do that, they don't know. And then coming from a sales background, it was underutilized. Like, grossly underutilized. I mean, 90% of Americans buy buy based on monthly payment. A practice doing one fifty has 250 patients coming through it, you're doing 12 credit apps. I mean, preferred buying habit, high volume, low volume credit apps.

1:10:24Made no sense to me. Yeah. Second was I didn't I didn't have a good feel for how bad dentist's time management is. You guys talk wait. Really? Tell me about that. You guys your your number one growth barrier is you guys talking too much in the inside the operatory. Like, shut up. It's a disaster. It's a disaster. And also so many levels. Oh, yeah. It it is. And then the other level is, like, talking off of X rays. Like, I don't understand X-ray. Like, you're talking off this X-ray as our guide, but I don't I don't know. Showing a patient a little black mark. A little black What the hell am I looking at? Really? Really? And and then when I discovered this other thing in the practice called an intraoral scanner, and this doc was like, dude, do wanna see my new scanner?

1:11:10I'm like, what's a scanner? He's like, let me show you. He was like and then he showed my mouth on a screen and could manipulate it. I'm like, why aren't you talking off of that? Exactly. They can see it. They can feel it. It's high-tech. Show me a part of my body I've never seen before. I can understand yellow decay and a hole in my tooth and an abscess visually. Stop talking off of x rays. Those were a couple, like, just the key things, patient experience, the way things are worded. Like, I'm I'm I actually, full transparency, I'm high dental anxiety. I have not had a cleaning in a year and a half. That's all I'm high like, I am very high dental anxiety. Like, I need for cleaning, I need gas.

1:11:48I need my handheld. I need a x-ray bib of my chest. Like, I You know what's interesting? I I have I have had this conversation with a lot of people over the last thirty years, and my observation as a dentist, and, I mean, you can tell me whether or not I my assumption is true. My highest fear patients as a general rule were really tough dudes. Really, truly. And and my theory has always been, like, you're used to being kind of in charge, in control, your presence The control. Like, people people, like, respect you, and you're you're just always, the alpha. But then all of a sudden, you're in a situation, you're laying back with your You're vulnerable. Totally vulnerable. Totally vulnerable. And it's something that you never experienced.

1:12:29Would you say that's maybe part of it? Yeah. Okay. I would say it's part of it. I would say another thing is two two misnomers you guys have as dentists, and it kinda goes along with this. It is one, when I hear this said, I I, like, instantly explain my view on this, and I'm pretty aggressive. When when when dentists say, I I want patients with higher dental IQ. No one's got dental IQ, first of all. It's not real. Okay? End of story. They might know a couple keywords. No dental IQ. Second is, they'll say they'll say something about dental anxiety, like, I I have some dental anxiety patients. No. No. All your patients have dental anxiety. Oh, yeah. No one wakes up in the morning and says, man, I can't wait to hear a drill next to my ear.

1:13:08Zero people say that. Alright? So let's own that now. Okay? Really? Nobody? And there's there's levels of dental anxiety, but everyone has it. Yeah. I'm high anxiety. Mhmm. There's people that can get in the chair and they can they can get over it. Like, I it's easier for me to get over jumping out of an airplane than it is me going to the next. I mean, that that's real. Right? Well, you're familiar with that world. I mean, you've done it a thousand times. This is, like, totally different. Yeah. I've controlled about where I Yeah. And I've been trained to handle it. I've been I've been conditioned to remove my fear and push it somewhere else. Right? I don't have training for going to the dentist.

1:13:43Mhmm. Right? And it's yeah. Those are the few things with the actual dentist. And if you combine, I'm not good at managing my time. I'm not good at communicating. And then I have a misperception of dental IQ and dental anxiety. That's a recipe for having some serious problems with case acceptance. Well, and then you throw in lack of self awareness and, you know, dealing with a team that all have different personalities and, I mean, all the anxiety. It it's it's really hard. Yeah. I mean, you said at the start. I mean, it's a it's a brave profession because It is. A lot of stuff that just doesn't necessarily come naturally. I had a dentist four or five years ago. I I won't say her name, but she'll know who she is if she listens.

1:14:22Her and her husband, I got really close to. They're Indian couple. They opened a practice somewhere in the Raleigh, North Carolina area, and she was having a lot of anxiety up until opening her practice. She did a start up, and she's a beautiful person. She's not a client anymore. We still text. And I was away on a scuba diving trip. Actually, wounded warrior scuba diving trip, and her husband hit me up. And I like, hey. Can you just talk to her for me? She's freaking out. I said, yeah. I I was in my hotel room, pat on. Like, what's up? She goes, just can't wait for the hard part to be over. I'm like, excuse me? She's like, this this whole getting open thing. I I I just need it over with.

1:14:53Like, it's the hard part. I'm like, no. No. No. No. Listen. Listen here real close. Please listen to me. It hasn't even gotten hard yet. And she's like, what? I'm like, first of you're doing a startup. You got no patience. So you're used to being an associate and having a full schedule and just doing work all day. No. No. No. You don't to sell yourself all day for a few months. Okay? And you're going from associate responsible for you and your little space and your little procedures to being responsible for a team. I said, I need to be upfront with you. Hard has not started yet. Say that again. And she was just like, oh my gosh. How's she listening? Worse. I'm like, I I would not be servicing you if I didn't tell you this.

1:15:29And that I think that's part of the brave profession part. And I I think part of it is there's an unknown with you guys where you don't realize it. And as a third party looking in from a completely different world, I see it very different. And I don't think any dental professional would have told her the heart hasn't started yet? You know, some. Like, I mean, that's the kind of thing I would say for sure because, you know, having been there and and recognize how challenging that is, especially when it's your first time and there's no, like, playbook until now. Apparently, now there's a handbook. But, you know, it's it's it is. I mean, people have no idea how difficult it is until they're in that situation themselves.

1:16:05What what do you think holds dentists back the most? Like, what what is the thing that every dentist needs to know or learn about so that they can just be more successful. And and you can define success a million different ways. So, you know, let's let's I'm gonna kinda reword it. Okay? What is the thing a dentist should know or focus on to keep them from struggling? Because success is one thing. Right? Yeah. I have a lot of startups that end up with me that for two years are doing $40,000 a month in collections. And they're just they're out of their minds. Right? And success has different stories. I had a guy named Eric Nelson a few years ago, super successful doc. His definition of success, super nice guy, was he wanted to do a certain amount of money in collections, work three to four days a week, and be with his family.

1:16:49He achieved that. He's successful. Yeah. I also have doctor Valo, who's my cohost, who just wants to build the biggest, coolest, best DSO ever and and and have giant months, that's his successful. Yeah. They're diff they're different. Right? But keeping a doc from struggling. And and these two things I'm gonna say lead to whatever your definition of success is. Mhmm. One is under capitalization of anything. You guys get cheap real fast True. On stuff you should not be cheap on. You guys think profitability comes from not spending. Profitability comes from revenue. Dude. It's not that you can't find profitability in underspending. Dude, as soon as you start counting paper clips and trying to shave off 1%, you're screwed. You gotta blow the top And end it's all about increasing revenue.

1:17:34I mean, you don't wanna be wasteful, but come on, man. Yeah. You're right. Dentists are cheap. They're they're just They're cheap with the wrong the wrong way. Yeah. Exactly. Right. They'll go do an implant CE course and buy the handpiece and the implant kit, and and and then they'll get really far far into it. And then they'll buy, like, a they'll buy a three d printer for surgical guides and that kind of stuff. And they've placed like eight implants. I'm not even good at it yet. And I'm like, dude, listen. Let's spend $10 a month on marketing to get you the the implant patients so you can get good at it, so you can buy those tools later and utilize them. Yeah. Have the lab make your surgical guides for now.

1:18:09Pay the money, bro. Don't think I'm gonna save this much on the surgical guide, all of sudden my profitability on implants is so much better. No. No. Right. And they'll overspend them. The wrong thing. You can get to that at some point, but Yeah. Not now. And I think the second one, after changing the mindset of being ultra cheap and being more plentiful, I think the second one is get very good at navigating the human terrain. You guys are clinical first. Yeah. We have a whole concept that teach you Energize called human first. So we do consult reviews over at my company. I do them personally, where I go consult by consult, the consult I gave you, and I ask doc questions about the consult.

1:18:44And sometimes doc will say this, well, can I see the x-ray to remember the patient? No. Not allowed. Excuse me? If you need an x-ray to remember the patient, we're pretty far off the mark. Now, I'm not saying you have to remember facts about every patient. What I am saying though is in your comms log inside the software, Sally's coming in. Alright. Here's a real one. Mister Smith's coming in. His daughter's getting married in May. He wants to smile at her wedding photos. That should be recorded somewhere. Definitely. When yeah. Exactly. When when the doc comes to the treatment planner, it shouldn't be number eight needs this, you know, bone graft here. It should be, hey, mister Smith's daughter's getting married in May. You know, we wanna smile on their wedding photos and then get into clinical.

1:19:22You if every time you communicate, you communicate the human stuff first and clinical second, you will become more human focused. You'll navigate the human train better. You'll build more human equity, more human currency, and all that stuff is unviable. Right. It's all about that relationship. And if you spend the time getting to know them as people before you even have them open their mouths, you really miss the boat. You you know who's really good about that in the industry in navigating is Elijah Desmond that you're in a mastermind with. Yeah. He's Elijah's really good at, like, gathering all that stuff up about every Elijah remembers I talked to Elijah twice a year in person probably. He remembers crap about me. And I'm like, what? How?

1:19:56Yeah. Right? He's impressive with that. Right? And that's why he's got such a big crowd around him is because he has made a point of navigating each of them on a human trained level. Yeah. Absolutely. Right? Docs need relationship capital. You know? Yeah. I mean, whether you're talking about, people in the industry, whether you're talking about patients, whether you're talking about your team, you gotta know you gotta know something about people so that you can actually connect with them. Yeah. And that's where, you know, that trust comes comes in. Yeah. And it's you know, I I think part of it too is, like, you know, it's it's the human capital, the human terrain, but it it's also the transfer of emotion. Right? Like, sales is the transfer of emotion.

1:20:31Yeah. Okay? First of all, in dental, you guys are salespeople. So if you're listening and you're a doc, I'm not a salesperson. You're completely wrong. Own it now. You're a salesperson. End of story. And your sale is a very compassionate sale you should be proud of, but it's also a hard sale because it's something no one wants. But they need it. So you're helping somebody. So one side, you're helping somebody. On the side, they're not really sure if they want the help. Okay? They're not not necessarily all bought in. Yeah. Transferring emotion in the operatory is very critical. I had a doc one time I was coaching, and I always stand outside the operatory and observe. I don't go in and overpower the operatory. I think it's really bad when coaches do that.

1:21:01I stand outside. They come out. I give them direction for the next It makes the dentist look bad too. They're like, like, who's standing door. Right? Yeah. Exactly. So I usually stand outside. Because a lot of times, I stand outside and listen, and they can't even see me. My back's to the wall, and I'm listening, and the door's right here. Mhmm. So I I had a doc, and I was watching him. And this guy just was bad. I mean, bad. Like, train wreck communicating with people. Like, I mean, probably one of the most socially awkward people I've ever met in my life, and he just struggled. I called him out of the operatory. I said, hey, man. What? I said, next consult, let's try to smile three times.

1:21:39That's the level of coaching I had to do with him. And I and that's an extreme. Right? No. No. Absolutely. But hey, Matt. I've seen over the years some of the best dentists, some of the best clinical dentists in the country don't have those people skills, and they don't do very much dentistry. They don't get to do all the stuff they're exquisitely trained to do because they never learned those things. Those soft skills are are just essential. They are I I think I think if you're have this thing called clinical bravery. I think if you're clinical brave, I think if clinical bravery collides with interpersonal skills, man, that's a recipe for success. I don't care what kind of marketing you have. I I I if you're a good chairside and I I have this question I ask, and I, when I talk to a doc, when I'm trying to help out.

1:22:21Right? And, you know, and you'll you'll find this interesting, I think. I'll ask them what their clinical bravery is on a one to 10. One being scared stiff just out of school. 10 being reckless. Where are you? Because both are bad. One and ten are bad. Yeah. And if they say a five or below, it's a one. And the reason why I ask it is the I'm trying to measure their tendency to refer out. Interesting. That's what I'm trying to measure as a marketer because I have to know that you're not gonna refer everything else so I can get you return on investment. Right? My favorite answer is a six, seven, or an eight. The reason why is a six, seven, or an eight pushes their clinical ability to provide continuity of care and quality of care in one location and not send their patients somewhere else.

1:23:01Yeah. If that if a doc is a six, seven, or an eight, and they have good interpersonal skills, I can do anything with a doc like that. Now if a doc has interpersonal skills but is a five or below, real hard. You know, the other thing, if they if they measure themselves as a six, seven, or eight, it also means there's self awareness and there's Yes. A growth. If they say, oh, I'm a 10, they're probably not a 10. You know? If you if you are a 10, you're probably looking at yourself as a seven or eight because you always wanna get better. Yeah. No. It's, you know, it's it's one of those things that's pretty hard. So I have to wrap up here in a minute.

1:23:34But, you know, what what closing questions do you have or, you know, what else do you have? Because I'm I'm I'm enjoying this so much. I could talk No. For hours. Dude, we we definitely could. We'll do another episode sometime. Ab absolutely. You know, I I will let you ask the last question. You know, I know you don't get interviewed a lot because you're usually on the other side I never get interviewed. Conversation. Like, what question you think I should have asked you that I didn't think of or didn't get to? What what's the question? You did really good, and you took it a different direction than most people do. Most people are really focused on the business side. I mean, you got really into the human side, which leads to the business side of why I am the way I am.

1:24:10I guess, like, the one question would be, maybe right now, like, to me, what is the most exciting thing in dentistry right now? Right? I am so happy I came into dentistry when I did. We are in the middle of a technology revolution in dentistry that is just it's Star Trek, man. I mean, we've done more in the last five years in dentistry in the last fifty. Yeah. And I get so excited. I'm not like a clinical geek, but I am like a tech geek in how it applies to clinical. And people would be surprised about me. My clinical knowledge is actually pretty strong, and I'm proud of it. Like, I I I I go to CE courses and sit in. I I've sat in a CE course on, these are the crowns or veneers and learned about packing cord and stuff.

1:24:49I've learned about stackable guides. You know, I I I've spent time with oral surgeons. I've shadow surgeries. And watching the technology make you guys more efficient, and honestly, watching the technology create better success of procedures and better experiences for the patient. That's right. It has been so awesome. Everything from lasers to scanners to to I mean, like, it's Star Trek now, dude. I can scan your mouth in one room. Yep. Have the appliance printer and milled in another room. I think a lab first of labs should be scared right now. You know, some of them are doing it right. Like Dandy, they're a 100% digital. I mean, it's extraordinary. It's why they're the fastest growing lab in the world right now because Yeah. I mean gotta figure it out.

1:25:28Yeah. They work with dentists who are actually going to do that digital workflow. Yeah. I think digital workflow is it. Really crazy rule we hear about Energize. If you're doing clear aligners if you're doing clear aligners and you wanna market it with Energize and you're doing impressions, the answer is no. If if you wanna do implant marketing with us and you don't have a CBCT on-site, we won't do it. Because I believe in the the new standard of care is what needs to be current. You know, and and that goes back to your treatment planning, case presentation, all those things. If your clients don't have those skills or don't have those resources, well, they're not gonna be that successful. And guess what? There's only so much you can do for them.

1:26:03You can bring them a million leads, but if they're not communicating effectively, if they don't have the technology to, like, actually capitalize on that, well, they're gonna think it's your fault. You know? You're you're not getting me the right patients. I want higher dental IQ, all that sort of thing. So I'll give you one other thing real quick before we sign off. And this is just for the listeners. And I'm I'm actually asking you this question. I may have asked you this before, but I don't know. And I asked a lot of docs this question. So if you wanna grow your clear aligner business, Invisalign, whatever it is. Right? There is a modality of treatment that creates more clear aligner treatment than approaching with clear aligners is.

1:26:34What what modality do you think that is? You gotta tell me. I tell me, man. You're you got the answer. I I don't know, man. Is are we talking about occlusion? Well, no. We've learned we've we've learned this at Energize. We booked 30,000 dental appointments a month, and we collect a lot of data. Yeah. If you wanna acquisition clear aligner patients, first of all, all the platforms have figured out the word Invisalign should be expensive. Okay? You market veneers. Market veneers. Because people generally you can't do crooked veneers on crooked teeth. Right? Sure. Let's straighten them first, baby. People need ortho who need veneers. Right? And they're cosmically minded. Right? If you wanna do more clear aligners, you market veneers. I promise you. The acquisition cost first of all, you're acquisitioning two high value modalities of treatment with one patient, one acquisition cost.

1:27:23Right? And it works. I promise you. The ROI is cases are great. They're they're great for the patients. I mean, it when you have malocclusion, you gotta get them straight anyway. You want them to look nice? We can make them look nice. But, hey, man. I'm gonna let you go. It's so good to hang out. So good to talk with you again today. Matt Brown, energized. Dental dental unfiltered, all the good stuff. Find him. He's doing great things in dentistry, and hope to see you soon, my friend. Awesome. It's great being on Jim. I I thoroughly enjoyed this. Being on the other side and being interviewed was way more fun, I just realized. I don't have to track the conversation as a as hard in my head and formulate next question because, you know, I do everything unscripted.

1:28:02But this was, this was really awesome. I really enjoyed it. Good. I did too, man. Hey. I might see you in Florida next week. Yeah. I would love to see you. We'll go to dinner for sure. Alright, man. Hey. If you got any value out of this conversation, definitely like and subscribe. Tell everybody else about it, and check out Matt on dental unfiltered. Thanks again. Take it easy. Thank you. This has been the Foundation Dental podcast. If this conversation was valuable, share it with a colleague who's building something meaningful. For more leadership resources, visit foundationdentalalliance.com.