The Buyer Already Knows

0:01Dr. Jim Arnold My guest today started one of the first non-dentist-owned dental groups in Massachusetts back in 1995 while he was still finishing his MBA. He grew it to six locations and then sold it. Then he ran New England for Great Expressions while the company went from 40 locations to about 70. Then in 2011, he did the whole thing over again from scratch in Florida. Three practices to 31 in 28 months, number 14 on the Inc. 500 list. He wrote the six stages of growth. He's the past president of the Dental Group Management Association. And last October, the Schills Fund gave him its excellence in industry award at NYU. And today he's built Pronto, the thing he says this interest industry is needed the entire time. Vin Cardillo, welcome to the Foundation Dental Podcast, buddy.

0:48Vin Cardillo Thanks, Jim. It's great to be here. I really appreciate you having me.

0:52Dr. Jim Arnold Yeah, man. Like I always enjoy talking with you. And you know, I we've never had an audience for our conversations. And maybe that's a good thing, but like today, just remember we got people listening. So All right, good, good. Yeah. And and you know it's it's too early for cocktails, so you know, we're we're both subtly tober right now. So at any rate. Hey, going going back in history, you know, I know a little bit about your hockey background. You you were a goalie, as I recall. but hey man

1:02Vin Cardillo boy, I'll I'll try and behave. Yep. Yeah.

1:22Dr. Jim Arnold Playing goalie and then getting into dentistry. Like what transferred over from the crease into this industry?

1:29Vin Cardillo Yeah, so that that's that's a great question. So the one thing that's real interesting about being a goalie is your concentration level has to be pretty extreme because you're focusing so much that you can actually see the angle of the stick moving when the shot is taken off to know if it's going up or down. So that level of concentration really gets you into a deep zone. And I I think, you know, that understanding that and what it can do for you kind of led me going to graduate getting my MBA, right? I wanted to be in the business, getting my MBA, and then you know, starting a dental practice with a dentist friend of mine that I knew. And what became obvious was, you know, I learned everything about the practice. I was the front desk and we had an on-site venture lab and, you know, I was pouring models and doing relines and repairs and you know, all of it, right? Yeah. Exactly. But but at the end of the day, what what what I had to learn was the numbers and the metrics because I couldn't control the practice. It's like

2:37Dr. Jim Arnold my God. Jesus. That sounds miserable, dude. Mm-hmm.

2:55Vin Cardillo Owning a restaurant, but you're not the chef. Right. It's not I mean, it's not fun, right, to think about. Because if the chef takes off, you're in trouble. So it it really forced me to try and look at every possibility on how we can move, you know, any nook and cranny to to to become better at what what we did, whether it was clinical or marketing, and not that I was a perfect marketer, but just to

2:58Dr. Jim Arnold Right.

3:24Vin Cardillo just to push the envelope a little bit further. And, you know, the hockey thing, I I happened to just grow up w at a time where hockey was was very strong. We had a lot of good players in Massachusetts and Rhode Island when I was a kid. And and my 17 year old team actually won the national championship. This

3:49Dr. Jim Arnold that's pretty awesome.

3:51Vin Cardillo So in and we were 40 and one and you know that coach really had the one of the biggest impacts in in in my life because it it could be bad because it was hockey old school, right? When you know you you were learning with force, really, right? It's like the tactic was fair, right? You're not here at this time, you're not playing. If you're not the right, it's like okay, I'm going. But

3:55Dr. Jim Arnold Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, man.

4:21Vin Cardillo But the the practice and the importance of practicing, you know, there was no messing around at our practices. And and it it showed when we went into games. And, you know, we would play teams and be up 10-0. And this guy would not let us stop. Because he's like, look, you guys are gonna stop. We're gonna go to Michigan and play these other guys, they're gonna kick your butt.

4:33Dr. Jim Arnold Mm. Yeah.

4:51Vin Cardillo So, you know, and if the best player did something off, they were on the bench. And it was really a it was really impacted me as a kid and in who I am.

4:55Dr. Jim Arnold I love it, man. You know, those experiences as as a teenager in in early twenties something have such a huge impact on the people we become. You know, I had the same experience with cross country. You know, we won a national championship in high school and a couple of state championships. And then I ran in college for the former Olympic track and field coach. And it's intense, you know, and I love that that mentality, that old school mentality, no bullshit. Let's just man, you're gonna w outwork everybody. And guess what? Those are life lessons that carry over to everything else we do, right?

5:15Vin Cardillo Nice. Right. Right. And I was fortunate enough to to have the rewards, right? When you win a national championship, you know, you you you get the fruits of your labor, right? If if you came in second, it's like, yeah, we went through and we lost, right? So we we we were lucky and it was it was a good experience and I'm blessed to have.

5:32Dr. Jim Arnold Yeah. Yeah. it's cool, man. But you know, coming into dentistry, you didn't have a dental background, obviously. I mean, you came in as an economist. So, you know, did that give you like a different perspective from most people who are in the industry?

6:00Vin Cardillo Yeah, I mean look, this was nineteen ninety-five, right? When our first office, you know, we there there was no practice management system, right? It was charts. I still remember like you would stamp like, okay, that's where the AR balance is, and you would put these charts in a different filing cabinet. It's like that's how old I am.

6:12Dr. Jim Arnold Damn that's right. Right. Right. Dude, hey, I got out of school in ninety six. So I was only one year behind you like getting into the industry. And and dude, I was at a mon pop practice, bread and butter. He did nice work. He was a great guy, built a nice practice, but holy crap, I mean, everything was was analog. And whatever practice management system we had was, I mean, they didn't even do the schedule on it. We had a paper, you know, paper, you know.

6:29Vin Cardillo Yeah, exactly. Paypal scheduler.

6:47Dr. Jim Arnold Yeah, all of that stuff and you look back and say it's hard to even remember those days. And Yeah.

6:52Vin Cardillo Yeah, I mean, computers were just coming out, and I'm coming out of an MBA program going into this dental office that we started, and I'm like, this is like ancient. This is like not what I kind of learned in school. And again, you know, 1995, the first DSOs were going, right? You know, with the the orthodontic centers of America, those guys had started already. But it was it was really the beginning of it, and it's really when people, business people started getting into

6:58Dr. Jim Arnold Yeah. Ha ha ha. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

7:21Vin Cardillo into dentistry and it's like, Okay, well this is really inefficient. How about we do this? Like, how about we have a team meeting, right? How about how about we have some goals? How about we look at some things to get better?

7:26Dr. Jim Arnold Mm. Yeah. Yeah, isn't that funny? I mean, it's just a different perspective. I mean, even when I came out of school, I didn't know anything. Yeah, knew just enough not to be dangerous, basically. But you know, it for for people in the industry who come through the industry, it takes a lot of effort to kind of learn some of those skill sets that you came out you know, your pro of your program, you just kind of naturally inclined to to run a business like that.

7:56Vin Cardillo Yeah, I mean to some degree. I mean I I had some experiences before I got my MBA, but you know, never owning a business, but you know, I you know, I was entrepreneurial enough that that's what I wanted to do. I mean to a most a lot of MBA people go into work for big companies and all, but I was always entrepreneurial, so it was very exciting to me.

8:04Dr. Jim Arnold Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, that's cool, man. I I mean you're you're a well known guy. I mean, you've been on a lot of stages, you've been, you know, in a lot of different groups and you've you've accomplished a lot in your I guess thirty one years in dentistry. And you know, but a lot of people they don't know you. You know, they they may see this persona or whatever. Like when people meet you for the first time, like what what surprises them about you?

8:32Vin Cardillo Yeah. Right. I I I don't know, that that that I that I like to have a good time.

8:43Dr. Jim Arnold You know, I I met you at the Greater New York meeting last December and you I I knew who you were and everything, but you know what surprised me? Like you were you were just like a genuinely nice guy. I mean, you were a genuine genuinely nice guy, and I thought you were just like really highly intelligent. And not that that was a surprise, but that was the first impression that you made on me. And and that's kind of the I think that's the scuttle butt in the industry. Guy knows what he's talking about. Yeah.

8:48Vin Cardillo Right. cool. All right, thanks. I appreciate that. You don't hear it often, you know, 'cause you're you're you you know how it is. You're you get in your own little hole and

9:14Dr. Jim Arnold No. Yeah, no, that's true. absolutely. Well, we get myopic, you know, and you're you're like you are. You're in your own foxhole for however many days, hours a day on Zoom calls and and doing the things you need to do and you're a founder of a company. So, you know, I'd love to go back to how, you know, Pronto got kicked off. You know, what what led to this incredible platform that you've developed over the past few years?

9:43Vin Cardillo Yeah. So look, d data and the technology is has always b been a need that I I I've had and and wanted. And so when we did the DSO in Florida, where we started with three and we went to 31 in in 28 months, my I was a partner with with a dentist friend of mine and two other dentists. And you know, my job was to build the whole back office infrastructure and to be able to make These practices are profitable enough to have the story to bring it into a private equity sellable business, right? It's one thing of going from three to 31 in 28 months, but there's another thing from going from three to thirty-one and selling it. Because to sell it, you have to be telling the story and you have to show your success of growing, right? You can say, okay, look, here are.

10:23Dr. Jim Arnold Yeah. Yeah, right.

10:42Vin Cardillo We got 31 practices. And by the way, we've integrated them all. And by doing and within the time frame of doing all that, our revenues can continue to go up and our eBit Doc grew. So that was the real trick. And, you know, I had like three people doing Google Sheets or whatever, Excel spreadsheets all day long. Right? So, but that was okay. I mean, that was the only way there was we used one guy who could pull some reports out of Gent Dentrix Enterprise.

10:50Dr. Jim Arnold Okay. Mm-hmm.

11:11Vin Cardillo so he got some reports, but it still wasn't enough to make decisions because you know, we didn't have a big team, right? You know, we had a corporate department. I don't know, our corporate team might have been, I don't know, eight of us or nine of us. You know, we had thirty one offices, ten of us. If you go look at today, your typical DSO is like one person in corporate per location. It's kind of one of the the breakdowns or metrics that people look at. So you know, I

11:27Dr. Jim Arnold Cheese. Right. Yeah.

11:40Vin Cardillo W we were we had one basically it was one office a month every single month, plus fixing the old ones. And it's like, okay, how how am I going to make decisions here? How am I going to help, you know, our regional managers? We had one, two, three. We only had three regional managers, but I needed to help them, right? I needed to help give them information so they knew what to go do. So it was a matter of gathering this information, putting it in a certain format so we can look at this quickly to go make decisions.

11:45Dr. Jim Arnold Yeah. Whew. Mm-hmm.

12:08Vin Cardillo So that was the first foray into it. Then after we I sold, I ended up in consulting. And again, we would have these Google Sheets. So we advanced the Google Sheets. And this time I'm like, okay, we're gonna let the we're gonna let the clients aggregate some of this data. So you know, shortly thereafter, excuse me.

12:09Dr. Jim Arnold Yeah. Mm-hmm.

12:35Vin Cardillo The the team members and the clients would complain to the owners, look, this is a pain. Why do we gotta put all this data in? I would complain internally, like, this is not enough data. I want more data. More technologies came out. I knew that I could have been doing a better job for them because it was this other data and I couldn't get it. And so finally I'm like, look, we we th we gotta do this. Like, I don't know why this industry doesn't have it, but

12:55Dr. Jim Arnold Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

13:04Vin Cardillo any other industry does we that's where the data is. The data lies in your it's not just a practice management system, right? Your you have your accounting system, you got your human resource system, you got your reputation management system, you got your VoIP system, or you got all these technologies that we need to know what's going on in those. So that's what led me to to that light bulb moment.

13:15Dr. Jim Arnold Yeah. But you know, the crazy thing though, Vin, I mean, most offices, they're looking at six different dashboards and they're trying to sort of piecemeal all of this together and figure out what does this mean for this and all that sort of thing. But like you've built something that is so usable. I I mean, I think about a DSO or even like an emerging DSO and I think about like a regional manager on Monday morning. You know, when he opens up Pronto, like what's on the screen? What's he looking at?

13:51Vin Cardillo Yeah. So so so what it Pronto is basically monitoring hundreds of KPIs that are benchmarked. and they looked at over numerous time periods. So it's thousands of data points, right? It's not millions, it's thousands. And maybe a hundred thousand. I know. And it on a quarterly basis, we run our little, you know, pronto AI tool to identify the opportunities that exist.

14:02Dr. Jim Arnold Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

14:20Vin Cardillo So on a quarterly basis, we work with the teams to sit down and look at what they can handle this quarter, right? First of all, what's the lowest hanging fruit? And then what they can handle. So if there's a real big low hanging fruit, you taking that as a priority, with that in mind, how many others can you take? So at that point, it gets time stamped into an opportunity, right? So let's say it's missed phone calls, right? For the

14:27Dr. Jim Arnold Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay.

14:48Vin Cardillo You you guys, year to date, we're at 30% missed phone calls. When we create this into an opportunity, it's time-stamped at 30. Now we've got a goal for it to be like 18 or whatever the thing is. And so at a practice level, someone might have three to five or six, whatever you can handle. And because it's time-stamped, it's ticking all time. So if I'm a regional manager, I can log into Pronto, go to the dashboard section, go and look at.

14:58Dr. Jim Arnold Mm-hmm.

15:16Vin Cardillo The opportunity section, I might have seven offices and it'll show me office number one, just like in you know, in a row. Office number one, there's seven opportunities they're working on. Five are red and two, five are green and two are red. Office number three, they're working on three things. All three are green. And then right below it, you can just see, okay, missed phone calls. We started at 30%, we're at 20. We moved the needle plus 33% in green.

15:19Dr. Jim Arnold Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay.

15:45Vin Cardillo When you go to that page and there's 20 items and it's all green, you're pretty good, right? You don't you don't need to write the old school way was okay, let me run in this office, put out the fires, and let me the the the corporate gave me these numbers and let me go run some reports and let me show this manager how to do this and no one's tracking it on a daily basis and see you later. Now I'm gonna go to the next office.

15:52Dr. Jim Arnold yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Right. So, and this is all based on like benchmarks that that you can adjust. You could you can look at the goalposts for each office and and what the reality is and what the goals are, adjust those, and it's gonna give you a a a red, green, yellow, basically. And is that all is all that information kind of aggregated automatically? Like, do you have like an AI waterfall or something that aggregates that into a list of priorities?

16:20Vin Cardillo Correct. Yep. Exactly. Yep. Yeah, so we so we pull the data through APIs from all these technologies and it's it's it's created in a in a in a format that we basically have a a metric store within our database. And then our Pronto AI tool goes through that, mining that data, you know, over time periods versus those benchmarks.

16:43Dr. Jim Arnold Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay. Mm-hmm. Okay. that's that's amazing. And and nobody else does that, do they? I mean, that is really when when you first told me about that, it it my my head just about exploded. I thought about like when I had a f I just had three practices, but the thought of being able to operate everything through that one dashboard and get all of that data aggregated in one place was just like crazy. You know, Vin, the amazing thing to me is.

17:05Vin Cardillo No no, no, no come on. Yeah.

17:26Dr. Jim Arnold You did the things that you did in terms of growing groups without any of that. Like, I mean, you are piecemealing it, you know, with Google Sheets and and whatnot.

17:32Vin Cardillo Right. But if I never did it that way, I would have never been able to create this.

17:39Dr. Jim Arnold Yeah. Well that's you know what? That's actually a a really good point. So when you when you are aggregating all of that data, you know, taking it from all of these different software platforms, you know, how are you prioritizing that that 10 or 20 things on the list to to work on?

17:56Vin Cardillo Yeah, so we're we're getting better and better at that. We now have a good chunk of the metrics that we can associate a potential dollar amount that says, Hey, if you hit this goal this month, it should drive this much more revenue. So in the future, you know, what we're building now is practice dependent.

18:11Dr. Jim Arnold Okay. Okay.

18:26Vin Cardillo on hey what's what's what's most important to you what are your core values in your practice because now we have to put a weighted average within our world we're we're gonna pull it on dollars right first and foremost but you know there might be you know you you might be worried about clinical excellence and if your period is if you're well I mean not all of them right not everybody

18:30Dr. Jim Arnold Mm-hmm. Okay. Mm-hmm. Sure. Mm-hmm. Well, I hope you are. They better be worried about clinical excellence, damn it. Well, that's true. You're right. Some for some it's not the biggest priority.

18:55Vin Cardillo Exactly, right? So w w whatever so there's a weighted average tool that is being created at the moment, which is based on the the practices core values, who they are, with the Pronto engine.

19:00Dr. Jim Arnold Mm-hmm. Okay. So that's a level of customization that that comes about how? Like through the onboarding process, you know, I assume you have a whole whole list of questions and things and and that all goes into the engine and kind of helps determine those priorities.

19:18Vin Cardillo Yeah. Correct. I mean it's it's kind of based on like production collections, compliance, you know, quality of care. There's like five or six different ones that we take a look at them and we have those them prioritize those.

19:31Dr. Jim Arnold Mm-hmm. Okay. Okay. So when you look at that, you know, it's like a you you call it more of like a monitoring system and and you compare it to like the check engine light, you know, in your car. So tell me explain what that looks like for a typical practice owner who has six dashboards open.

19:47Vin Cardillo Yeah. Exactly. Yeah, so I mean it's look, it's very hard. it the it's nearly impossible to to know what to do, right? Because if you go into a VoIP system, right? A voice over IP system, you know, some of these technologies are made for call centers. So if you go in there, they've got hundreds and hundreds of metrics, just those people, right? So what we do is we go in and pull

20:10Dr. Jim Arnold Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

20:29Vin Cardillo The most important ones to monitor it. Like we had this, I don't know. I told you the story before, but it was probably a year ago now. Right? We fired it up, we pulled up the data, we looked at it. I'm like, Doc, you're missing 31% of your phone calls. He's like, there's no way. What are you talking about? I'm like, I don't know. That's what it's telling us, right? So that's the monitoring system. Now it's like, okay, let's go into your VoIP system. I don't know if it was Mango or 8x8. And when we went in there, What we noticed was 76% of the 31% happened during lunch. And he's like, my God, I can't believe it. I told the the the team, you know, right after COVID not to worry about manning the phone at lunch. And I never thought about it again. I thought they would be picking it up, and they never did, and that was, I don't know, four years later. Right? So, okay, the next week they manned the phone and they went down to 18%.

21:04Dr. Jim Arnold No kidding. wow, that's wild. Amazing. Geez, that that quickly, just from, you know, getting that bit of intel that they wouldn't have gotten in any other way. Wow. Mm.

21:29Vin Cardillo Yeah. Yeah, I mean all of this stuff I could tell you I could tell you like the percentage of a new patient phone call that gets booked, right? When when we fire it up, usually it's usually it's in the low sixties. Right? In three months it's high seventies, low eighties.

21:39Dr. Jim Arnold Mm. Mm-hmm. Okay. So so compare that to some of the other platforms out there, you know, because everybody claims to kind of do the same thing, you know, this group and that group and this platform and that platform. Like what really differentiates Pronto from from the rest? I mean, I I already know the answer to this because I I freaking love it, but tell tell me.

22:06Vin Cardillo Yeah, so So, so the other, you know, dashboards are basically giving you data. They're going in and pulling the data out, right? Out of practice management system. Right. And and you know, they'll they'll have their metrics for whatever whatever those are, right? But it's not 200, it's not 230. It's useful, but the biggest problem is if you don't have a benchmark, how do you know?

22:16Dr. Jim Arnold Mm-hmm. out of the practice management software. Yeah. Sure. It's it's useful information, but it's not as robust.

22:39Vin Cardillo that it's a big deal or not. Like, and and we we work, look, we work with different clients and we and we see their business model and and we create a metric on the fly and we can get rid of metrics. So we've got hundreds of them, but you we don't put them all in for you. Right. So, you know, like we've we've found that, you know, the percentage of emergency exams, right?

22:41Dr. Jim Arnold Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

23:06Vin Cardillo What percentage of emergency exams come back within 45 days for a comprehensive exam? Right? You like who thinks about that? I don't know. But I could tell you it's 20%. And I could tell you that an emergency patient revenue is a whole lot lower per year than a comprehensive exam patient. Right? So when you move that, when you move that needle from 20% to 43%, we can get.

23:12Dr. Jim Arnold Mm. Ooh, that's a great metric. Yeah, right, right. Hmm. That's right.

23:35Vin Cardillo Those two numbers and tell you what how much more revenue you're gonna have.

23:38Dr. Jim Arnold What a great thing to track. Yeah, I as a pr multi practice owner, that's not even a metric I ever thought about. I mean, certainly we would try to, you know, bring them in, take care of them and and win them as a new patient, but we didn't track it. It was kind of like, hey, what happened to so and so last week? You know, but no. Right, right.

23:50Vin Cardillo Yeah. It well, because you can't. It's too much, it's hard, it's too much work, right? So, so you know, there there is another company that that pulls data in from other technologies, but now it's more confusing because there's more data in there. Right.

24:05Dr. Jim Arnold Mm-hmm. Yeah. More data isn't necessarily helpful. It's more organizing that data in a way that's digestible and it helps you prioritize that that low-hanging fruit.

24:18Vin Cardillo Correct. So so we're so pronto aggregates data, identifies opportunities, and we're now into executes on those opportunities, which is the next layer of of some automations where we would partner with some AI companies, build our own AI tools, where now we can automatically do some of these things. Right. To to to solve those.

24:23Dr. Jim Arnold Mm-hmm. A I E. Mm-hmm. Okay. So it's come, it's it's made progress even since the last time that I saw it, it sounds like, because I know that was something you were talking about, but that's that's an exciting kind of next step in terms of the the evolution of things. So I you know, one of the things I read that I I didn't know about before, but just doing some research prepping for this, something about like most groups, they look at like more than eighty categories on a PL list, but you advocate for 17. Did I get that right or did I read that wrong?

24:54Vin Cardillo Yeah. Yeah, no, so look when you so when you look at typically at a dental office, right? You you know, if you're a dentist and and you're getting a profit and loss statement, you should be. If you're not, make sure you tell your bookkeeper or your accountant to give you your P L every month, no later than fifteen days after the next month, and to explain it to you. So what typically happens is you've got all these expense line items and they give it to you and it's two pages and it's eighty line items.

25:14Dr. Jim Arnold And what does that what does that do? Like why? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Every month, man. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

25:43Vin Cardillo Well, if we're going off a hundred percent, right, and you know, and there's eighty line items and supplies is five and the rent is five and labs is five and dental assistant is ten, and you know, front desk is this and hygienist, seven of them take up sixty, right? The other seventy-two take up ten percent. So they're all like a half a percent, one percent, and you

26:04Dr. Jim Arnold Yeah, right.

26:12Vin Cardillo You you can't manage it. You don't know to fix that. So we we w you know

26:14Dr. Jim Arnold Yeah.

26:19Vin Cardillo We bundled them in, you know, so it's it's about seventeen ledger items that are bigger numbers. And again, okay, the the goal is that, you know, I don't know, your other GNA expense is, you know, you've been running it for three years at six percent, and this is your catch-all for your your repairs and maintenance, your your bank fees, your payroll fees, all that crap.

26:20Dr. Jim Arnold Mm-hmm. Okay. Mm-hmm.

26:49Vin Cardillo that it's all in there. Right. So now you can go in there and see all the subcategories and say, well, we're over by two percent where. So now you can go and dissect why we over two percent.

26:57Dr. Jim Arnold Yeah. Okay. So it's really the the overview is just more digestible. Again, like to not be overwhelmed, especially dentists who aren't most of whom don't really look at that on a monthly basis. But with emerging groups in particular, they've always got somebody who's pouring over the numbers. But to have that in a format, I I would guess that just kind of makes things stand out more visible. And then you focus your attention on those areas.

27:03Vin Cardillo Correct. Right. Correct. So we so we teach because the PL ends up in pronto, right? With their budget. And then we teach them, hey, look, on a monthly basis, the owner or the regional or the operations person with with the manager and the bookkeeper or whoever did the books to review the PLs from your budget, because we've said that this is what our expenses were going to be. And if something is off, so if it's other G and A, we said it's

27:28Dr. Jim Arnold Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

27:51Vin Cardillo supposed to be six percent and it's eight. Well, within pronto you can exp you can click that particular category and it will expand and you can see the other ten. So you can identify which one was the blip. And then you can literally click through again to see all those. We liter I th this happened three days ago with the client. We clicked through twice and they ended up finding out they paid a bill twice.

28:01Dr. Jim Arnold Yeah. God, that's great. You know, Vin, what what you're kind of glossing over there is that I mean, you're talking about the profit and loss statement lines within a pronto dashboard. It's not a separate dashboard. It's all in one, which again is is something I had never seen before. You know, to kind of merge all that data, I mean, tying it into the practice management software and what's actually going on. I mean, that's that's just an extraordinary thing that saves so much time, I think.

28:31Vin Cardillo Correct. Yep. Yeah, well, yeah, it does. It's it's it's for me, you know, it's changed my world and in the ability f to manage. Like if you're a DSL right now and you're a regional manager, your regional manager will be more successful. I can guarantee you that, because they're gonna know what to focus on and they can handle thirty five percent more offices.

28:55Dr. Jim Arnold Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes. And so Vin, like let's say a scenario with like forty practices, you know, and they're in like say four different regions, you know, roughly ten per region. I mean, I assume you've got a dashboard where you can look at the whole forty or you can break it down to ten or like these three in this town over here, like kind of any sort of grouping. Okay. that's that's awesome. And so you have different people

29:14Vin Cardillo Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Company region location. Right, so so in that situation that you're mentioning right there, that group can lose a regional manager. Right. So so drop that to the bottom line and you now you now added about 800,000 to your valuation of your of your group.

29:33Dr. Jim Arnold Yeah. Mm-hmm. Wow, wow. I you know, I never really thought about that. But but you can really attack the pro the problem from every different level, from the office manager level to the regional manager level to the COO level and and really keep track of exactly what's going on. Yeah, and you know, within that, one of the things I thought was really interesting when you showed me, it like it determines like what what the priority is, what the assignment is, who owns that assignment, and then when it's actually completed.

29:54Vin Cardillo Correct. Yep.

30:15Dr. Jim Arnold Like walk me through that process and how that works with Pronto.

30:19Vin Cardillo Yeah, so I mean I think I think a lot of that is on the huddle piece where on a daily basis, you know, there's a number of things in Huddle of, you know, hey, look, we found all these things here. Let's make sure we fix them. And and and that didn't that again, that data is coming from numerous places. But but when we're setting the prior the opportunities on a quarterly basis, if you picked four or five as part of that, they're gonna pick who's responsible for it.

30:25Dr. Jim Arnold Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay. I got that. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

30:48Vin Cardillo This particular one might be dental assistance, right? I mean, again, here's another one. What's the percentage of new patients that have an FMX or a panorex? I don't know. What do you think that number should be?

30:51Dr. Jim Arnold Mm-hmm. Who me? Should be a hundred percent. Everybody should have it. I mean

31:01Vin Cardillo Percent yeah, percent of all right. I can tell you that it's insane. When you look at these groups, you'll see offices that are like sixty four percent. It's like what is Well, okay, but

31:08Dr. Jim Arnold Yeah. What? my God. Imagine the numbers associated with that other 30 or 40% just doing that. Not only is it revenue, not only are you getting the diagnostic information you need, but your treatment planning a lot more work and people are getting the treatment that they need. Like, wow.

31:26Vin Cardillo R right. And I mean that that's a clinical liability potentially, right? It's a clinical metric.

31:31Dr. Jim Arnold absolutely. Yeah. I mean it's a standard of care, for goodness sakes. So tell me about Pronto Pro and you know, like the the people versus IT reps, you know, and what what doesn't the software work on on its own? What are the people responsible for?

31:35Vin Cardillo Correct. So the people are responsible for training, right? Because it's you know, a lot of implementing, onboarding, and training, right? So the implementing and onboarding is one piece. And you know, it's very important to provide data that matches. A number of these systems that are plug-and-play, you run a report and the numbers don't match. And

31:51Dr. Jim Arnold Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

32:18Vin Cardillo You know, a a big reason, all the reason, is the way someone set up the practice management software in the beginning. Like where an adjustment goes. Correct.

32:27Dr. Jim Arnold And you got a mismatch. You have a mismatch. And you know when that's a real nightmare is when you're doing evaluation. You know, when you're trying to figure out what a frickin' practice is worth and the the systems just don't match. It's such a freaking pain in the ass. I love the idea of having clean data where the categories match across.

32:40Vin Cardillo Correct. So we don't so when we go in, we're going into the practice management system and do a full audit to make sure it's set up the appropriate way. You know, we go with the doctor, show, show that to them. So they do that and then they're they're responsible for working with the teams to learn it. And then they will, you know, over the first six months, have monthly meetings with them. And then after they'll on a quarterly basis help them pick those opportunities and review the prior quarter's opportunities.

32:55Dr. Jim Arnold Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Well that's that's really that's usable information. Yeah, now when you look at the the moat around pronto, like what what's the h thing that would be hardest for a competitor to actually copy? You know, based upon all your development, all the things that you've done.

33:30Vin Cardillo Yeah, I mean I think it's around How we look at data, right? And how the way we look at it impacts the practice right away. Right. I mean, anybody can have the metrics, but how are you using them so someone in the office doesn't have to go run around looking for it? Right? It's there. It's different because it's telling you what to do.

33:38Dr. Jim Arnold Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah.

34:04Vin Cardillo And it's telling you what to do in a correct manner, not what someone is asking. Right? I I don't need someone to go pull a report because I don't know, somebody else said, Hey, let's go check this out. Yeah, this is a problem. You might you might be right. But what are your other problems? And where does the problem that someone just mentioned to you fit within the other problems? Right? So it's identifying the opportunities, right? And then and then

34:10Dr. Jim Arnold Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Sure, yeah, absolutely. Okay.

34:34Vin Cardillo Putting them into a value system in a priority order that includes revenue, that includes collections, that includes EBITDA, that includes compliance, that includes quality of care. So it uses all of those levers to make that decision.

34:39Dr. Jim Arnold Mm. Mm-hmm. And we're talking about like real time EBITDA numbers, like because it's aggregating all this data from all these different programs. Holy cra I mean, that that's just a huge that's a huge thing. You know, when you when give me a real story about like a practice where you turn this a practice or group, you turn this on and it surfaced something that was really surprising that really made a huge impact on the practice or group.

34:59Vin Cardillo Yeah. Correct. Yeah, so there was this group that was I don't know, they were three point six of Ibita, right? And they and they they went to go get a number, right? They they're thinking they were gonna sell, they got an offer of twenty-four million dollars and they're like, Well, we're not gonna sell. And, you know, they brought us in our legacy consulting business when we first started with Pronto, right? And, you know, we went in there and

35:32Dr. Jim Arnold Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

35:47Vin Cardillo We plugged it in and we're like, okay, guys, here's the deal. We got two, two years, 24 months to sell, right? Which which is pretty quick to get to where they wanted to go to. And you know, we ran it ran pronto and and you know, out of the gate we had 14 core initiatives, right? Because everyone always asks, what are the most important what are the most important ones? I mean, I there's it depends. It depends, right? It really does depend.

35:58Dr. Jim Arnold Mm-hmm. It depends. Yeah.

36:16Vin Cardillo When you have so many data points that can impact, there are a lot of them. But the phone's a big deal, period's a big deal, right? no shows are a big deal. There's a lot of things that are big deals. So we had a a core fourteen that in the end, because we had we had eight quarters, right? And we couldn't put all fourteen at once. So I think be

36:21Dr. Jim Arnold Yeah. Mm. Mm.

36:44Vin Cardillo From the 24 months, we ended up using about 18 different ones as our levers, right? Because we ended up finding some more a little bit deeper. So they were three point six, got twenty-four million. In two years, they were five million and got fifty million.

36:50Dr. Jim Arnold Huh, interesting. Yeah. Wow. my God. That's huge. Wow. Did now did they end up selling or are they still running? my God, that's phenomenal. Well, that I'd say that that was an investment that definitely paid for itself. You know, when I think about yeah, no kidding, they should 10 times that. You know, when when I think about you and your history and what you did without all this software and all this technology, then to add that technology to like your armamentarium and

37:01Vin Cardillo Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, they got fifty million. Yeah. Yeah it did. They didn't pay me enough though. Yeah, yeah.

37:28Dr. Jim Arnold That's that is really powerful stuff. I mean, I think about practices and groups working with you and and like what a huge impact you can have. And that and then and personally it's exciting because, you know, I know you're gonna do some of that with my mastermind members, which is super exciting. Yeah, yeah, super exciting. So when you look back, I mean, let's go back to the beginning a little bit. That first group, you grew from two practices to five, like within six months. I mean, like I don't even understand how you grow that quickly.

37:42Vin Cardillo Yeah. That's that is so exciting. Yep.

37:58Dr. Jim Arnold But after that you didn't know any better, right?

37:59Vin Cardillo Well, 'cause I was dumb. I didn't know better then. Look, I all the stuff that I know today is because of all the mistakes I made. I mean, you know, I went from two to five in six months in my twenties, and it took me two and a half years to get out of the crap that I created. Right? So I've lived it and I can't tell you how many clients that we've had did the same thing. And I can't tell you how many that we prevented from doing that.

38:08Dr. Jim Arnold Yeah. Yeah. Mm. Wait, when you say get out of the crap. What do you mean by get out of the crap? Like what is what is that?

38:30Vin Cardillo Well, because the it because I went too quick, too fast. I didn't have the systems in place. I didn't have this, I didn't have that. And now my EBITDA was getting hurt. We're g having turnover. And it took me I didn't know how to turn a practice around. That's all I learned. Right. And the problem is I had more bad ones than good ones.

38:36Dr. Jim Arnold Gotcha. Mm-hmm. Okay, okay. I gotcha. So you were kind of in a holding pattern there for a few years then, like after you grew to five. Yeah.

38:53Vin Cardillo Y y yeah, it was I don't know, everything may it was probably two years that it took me to to to to rite the ship there.

39:00Dr. Jim Arnold Okay. But what did you have to change? Like what what like you personally, like what had to change for Vin Cardillo to actually start to grow again? Come on, man. You're gonna grow up one of these days, but you know, there had to be something there.

39:09Vin Cardillo God. I'm still trying to change. Yeah, I mean I mean I was young, right? I was in my twenties. I I, you know, what did I learn? I I was every day was a learning experience, but I mean everything like what's a good deal, what's not a good deal, you know, doing an acquisition and people walking out on you because you want to make all these changes right away.

39:24Dr. Jim Arnold Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

39:39Vin Cardillo The diligence you did was completely wrong and you got burnt, right? I mean, like everything, right? you got into a lease that you really didn't read that well, and your lawyer that you paid really didn't read it that well either. so a number of items.

39:42Dr. Jim Arnold Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. But you know, you to beyond that then, I mean, you kind of crash through those barriers, like in your next two experiences. And you know, I look at a lot of emerging groups and they, you know, like just to go from like five to eight, there's like this big roadblock, and then go eight to fifteen and all that sort of thing. But you you were blasting through those like a practice a month. how like when you look at emerging groups now?

40:12Vin Cardillo Yeah.

40:20Dr. Jim Arnold What are the biggest challenges that they're facing in scaling that you somehow overcame to scale so quickly?

40:29Vin Cardillo Well, because I had I had made the mistakes and fixed them. So that prepped me I had made X number of mistakes, which allowed me to get to the next level. But I still made mistakes then, right? I mean, there's a there's a little ebook that I wrote on the six stages of growth, where at certain stages of number of practices, things change, right? You the organization has to be different. So the current emerging group practices, they get the wrong people in the wrong places most of the time. Right? Wrong and they don't have an org chart, right? They have

40:41Dr. Jim Arnold Yeah. You know Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Right. Mhm. Okay. Okay. That makes sense. And they don't have those experiences. Yeah.

41:09Vin Cardillo One person, you know, they got

41:11Dr. Jim Arnold Mm mm.

41:12Vin Cardillo People reporting to three people, right? Y you know, that's just you know, you don't know that as a as a dentist. Like why would you why would you know that? But you you can't you can't operate and scale that. You could do that with one office. You can't do that with six, you can't do that with eight, right? It it's it becomes a a disaster.

41:18Dr. Jim Arnold Mm-hmm. Yeah. Right, right. You can get away with a lot of that. Sure, sure. Interesting. Well, you know, I I'm a firm believer that we learn as much from our mistakes and the challenges that we overcome as we do the things that just go, you know, smoothly from day one. And and that in dentistry that rarely happens, the smoothly from day one thing. But you know, when you when you think about that and lessons that you learned as as a twenty something, you know, now, you know, as an old man, I I didn't say old man, did I?

41:51Vin Cardillo Yeah.

41:52Dr. Jim Arnold As a as a seasoned operator, you know, it it's interesting. I mean, just your perspective to look at that and and the value you can create for those emerging groups, it's it's pretty extraordinary. are you d doing a lot of consulting now?

42:07Vin Cardillo Yeah, I mean we have a lot of legacy clients. We have a lot of people that again, we get pronto and then they say, Well, can you help us do this or can you help us do that? And you know, some of the management services contracts that we're working on also now get get us more involved in into the business aspects of it. But there there's look, w when I was doing it, there was really no one to go to. They didn't, you know, there was no DSOs, there was no one to go to, no one knew how to do it, right?

42:16Dr. Jim Arnold Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, right. Yeah.

42:36Vin Cardillo But you know, look, I get into other business anytime I get into another business activity, I I immediately go and find out who the people that have done it before and talk to talk to them. I just do it because I know the cost that it and in dentistry I don't see dentists doing that enough. And when they do do it, they don't

42:40Dr. Jim Arnold You DIY'd it. Yes, yes. Yeah. Mm. Mm-hmm.

43:07Vin Cardillo diligence who they're hiring. I I why would you hire someone that's never done it before?

43:09Dr. Jim Arnold Right. Mm-hmm. Look, man, you don't have to reinvent the wheel. I mean, you kind of reinvented the wheel. You're one of the you you're one of the few that that did that and took your long. Yeah, well, there's that too. But hey, man, I I'm I'm a firm believer in that. Back when I as a young dentist, I had 17 mentors at one time and I was learning different things from each of them. I kind of hand selected people I saw as really good in these different areas. And then I picked and chose like what worked for me and what

43:16Vin Cardillo I I I don't understand. Well, all the others all all the others are retired. Mm-hmm.

43:42Dr. Jim Arnold And that sort of thing. And it's kind of like what I've created with the mastermind. You know, got 35 niche experts who all have these unique skill sets. Instead of going out and finding all these people or a guru, which I don't believe in gurus, you know, getting all these great minds together so that you don't have to reinvent the wheel. And you know, it's it's just I think it's pretty cool how you were able to do that kind of again as a young guy. But when you sold the great expressions, I think you had six practices, but like.

43:53Vin Cardillo Exactly.

44:09Dr. Jim Arnold What had you done with those practices to make them like worth more than a traditional six practices would have been worth?

44:16Vin Cardillo you know, so w when I got well, I would have done a lot, I mean I I would've done a few things differently today, for sure, but I knew that it was time when it was time to sell, I knew it was it was time to start squeezing. Right? And and focusing on Ibita, because that's all everyone wanted. Right? And that meant, you know

44:22Dr. Jim Arnold Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay. Mm-hmm.

44:43Vin Cardillo W when you're growing and you got a number of practices, you have to have spare people to do what you got to do, right? Because you can't do it. So, you know, I I did move away from excess for sure. Because if you don't have it, now you're fighting them on the Ibiton number. Well, if I get rid of this person and what happens in that negotiation, you always lose because they're not going to give you 100% of it. So if the person's not there or those expenses are gone.

44:49Dr. Jim Arnold Yeah. Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm.

45:13Vin Cardillo you you can be rewarded. So I I I would I did understand Ibita and I did understand how the buyers would look at it. So I knew how to present the numbers the way they wanted to look at them and see them. And I s you know presented them in a format that was in my favor

45:15Dr. Jim Arnold Mm-hmm. What year was that then? Yes. Yes. Exactly. Mm-hmm.

45:41Vin Cardillo e even though they found other things, but I brought the the best to the top, right?

45:44Dr. Jim Arnold Sure. Mm-hmm. Well, you know, I'm a firm believer in like really understanding not just your numbers, but all of your opportunities inside and out. And and that's why, you know, too many dentists they wait too long. They wait too long and then they're desperate to do it and they have no leverage. And and frankly, they go to the negotiating table with the DSO representatives knowing their practice and their numbers way better than they do. So one of the things Brian and I do Is, I mean, obviously a a deep dive on everything. And you know, everybody, quality of earnings light and all this kind of stuff. Well, that's crap. You know, that's that's the first our first category of nine. We have eight categories beyond quality of earnings light. You know, it's it's such a joke. I I I just laugh, we do quality of earnings light. Well, you better do quality of earnings light, for God's sakes. But you know, when you can unearth those things, you can either correct them proactively.

46:26Vin Cardillo Right, right, right.

46:38Dr. Jim Arnold Or you're the one who brings it up in conversation and use it as a an opportunity as opposed to a liability. You know, when you know your numbers, when you understand your systems, when you understand the opportunity, you can turn those things into opportunities and you control the narrative, which puts you in an advantageous position. Yeah. And and you already knew that. You already knew that. But now you've got tools that make it even easier to unearth those things. So yeah, you know.

46:45Vin Cardillo Exactly. Yeah, yeah, totally. One hundred percent correct. Exactly, exactly.

47:06Dr. Jim Arnold I I would guess that you're working with some transitions companies. I mean that like we're we're committed, we wanna we wanna do some work with you for sure, you know, just to help, you know, uncover that low hanging fruit before we go to the negotiating table.

47:19Vin Cardillo Yeah, and I mean even getting ready to sell, right? That group brought us in because they didn't like their offer. Okay, but they they were willing to spend the money to get from twenty four to fifty million dollars and they didn't pay me twenty million dollars, I could tell you that.

47:27Dr. Jim Arnold Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I mean Yeah, man. I mean, geez. When you're that's that's a hell of an ROI right there.

47:43Vin Cardillo Right. Yeah, so so I mean look, getting th there there's a majority of these practices that are going to sell, that are leaving money on the table. And that's why a DSO will pay eight times because they've already identified the Ibita that in 12 months they really paid five and a half. They they're they've already done all that.

47:59Dr. Jim Arnold Mm-hmm. Yeah. absolutely. That's right.

48:11Vin Cardillo They know, right? And then the dentist goes and says, I got eight times you can no, you really got five and a half times, but y you didn't know better, right? Had you had those earnings higher, you would have gotten more, right? And so one area that what I would saying to you saying, you know, we can potentially work and help you out are you must have a lot of practice that come to you that are not ready to sell or that you see there's a huge, you know, opportunity there for them.

48:19Dr. Jim Arnold That's exactly right. And and I'll be honest. Yeah. Yeah. In six months we can make a big impact and maybe get them an extra five hundred thousand, extra million dollars just by yeah, it's a hell of a lot of money. And it's worth waiting six to twelve months if that's going to make that big of a difference, of course. So when you sold though, you stayed on with Great Expressions for a few years. You know, how how is that? Okay, all right. That that that can be good and bad.

48:42Vin Cardillo Yeah, it's a lot of money. Exactly. Yeah, I had a three year contract. Yeah, I mean yeah, I mean it's tough as an entrepreneur. Go work for the man.

49:05Dr. Jim Arnold Yeah, it is. Yeah, yeah. No, I it's funny, Vin, because I I I sold eleven years ago, as you know, and and I did everything wrong. You know, I like I did everything right in building my practice and you know, had, you know, 31% Ebitha before I even knew what Ebitha was, and you know, we were crushing it and things were great and it kind of ran itself. And I went to the negotiating table by myself. I didn't have representation because I thought I'm sm I'm smart enough. Like I got this, I know my practice, but I didn't know what I didn't know.

49:18Vin Cardillo Amazing. Yep.

49:33Dr. Jim Arnold And you know, I probably could have gotten double for my practices as is what I did because I didn't have that reputation and I didn't have a tool like Pronto or people who knew the game like like I know now, you know. It's it's funny, man. It and it happens too often.

49:39Vin Cardillo Right. Yep. Exactly. Yep. Again, you're you're there because of mistakes that you made, right? I mean, us old people have learned because of our mistakes, not because we're that smart.

49:50Dr. Jim Arnold Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. Well, you know, and and look here I am, at at a point where I've had enough successes and enough made enough mistakes that, you know, coalescing all of those, you know, I feel really good about helping Dennis avoid doing the dumb stuff that that I did.

50:08Vin Cardillo Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean I I I I love it. The the the the biggest challenge is when you know that you can help them and you and you can feel that they think that you're trying to sell something. It's like, look, I just want to help you, man.

50:19Dr. Jim Arnold Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know you're you're right. You're right. It's like, man, you're gonna make a lot more money on this than I am. Just, you know, you gotta have a little bit of faith. So, you know, going back to Florida and that crazy rapid growth, you know, 28 practices, 30 three to 31 in 28 months, like what was the biggest challenge of that? I mean, you'd already done it, and you kind of knew the the way to do it a little bit better, but what what what was what was so hard that it almost broke?

50:31Vin Cardillo Yeah. People.

50:56Dr. Jim Arnold Hmm.

50:57Vin Cardillo And when I say people, more of the ability to spend time with them and train them. Right. One, in transitions, right? I had done a couple of transitions. Well, I know I did the I did a few transitions with great expressions. We did a bunch, but you know, we were moving the way we were moving. And, you know, I had a practice where, you know, that that's where I learned to put together a a six month transition plan.

51:03Dr. Jim Arnold Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

51:25Vin Cardillo versus a six week transition plan because the whole office left and quit. The whole office. Yep. Yep.

51:28Dr. Jim Arnold Interesting. boy. Yeah, that's that's a disaster, man. I mean, because we both know that that buyers are purchasing the people and the systems and the repeatability of what's been happening and the ability to scale from there. But when you lose the people, my God, like, yeah.

51:44Vin Cardillo Exactly. Yeah, you can't force it, right? I was racing, right? I wanted to get this done, get it done, get it done. But you know, when it comes to changing people and their practices, you you gotta slow it way down. Now I'm the the per I can believe that I now I'm the person telling people to slow down, which was pretty amazing.

51:53Dr. Jim Arnold Yeah, right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Wait a minute. That's hard for me to imagine, man, because you you move fast. So what was there a moment, like was there one specific moment that that illustrates that that perfectly? It's like, man, if I could go back and do that over again.

52:08Vin Cardillo Yeah. Well yeah, I mean I I did it and and the whole office walked out. They all quit. I had nobody. They all quit. Everyone quit. They all left.

52:25Dr. Jim Arnold Like literally? come on. my god. What happened from there, man? Like I've never heard this story.

52:36Vin Cardillo Yeah, we had to r we had a recruit. We had to run and recruit the doctors it was a husband and a wife, they took off. It so they had, you know, they had an earn up, they got 70% and 30 was a roll. They didn't care about the 30, they took off. So they left their 30% on the table. So I guess you get your 30% to go and fill the gaps, right? I mean, I don't know. Maybe one dental assistant stayed in the end because, you know, he or she was like, okay, I'll stay. But everyone was gone.

52:47Dr. Jim Arnold Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. my God. Wow. Wow. Yeah. Geez, you know, it it's it's interesting, Vin. That one of the things I did really well was, I mean, I had 27 people working with me and I was very concerned about all of that. Like I was very sensitive to that because they were my family. They'd all been with me for like 14 years or more, or at least my core group. And and I knew that if they left, we wouldn't be able to maintain the numbers and we wouldn't, you know, get all the the earnouts and whatnot. And and and I wanted them to feel at ease and like it was gonna be a good thing.

53:24Vin Cardillo Yep.

53:32Dr. Jim Arnold And so I think a one thing dentists don't do right is is that whole process of letting the team know. You know, you gotta pick out some key people. If you've got associates, you have a different conversation with each of them. You frame it in such a way that you address what you know that individual is gonna be worried about and frame it in such a way that it becomes a positive. And then you have a separate conversation with the next associate, then you have a separate conversation with your office managers so that each of them is you you cater the conversation to them. put their minds at ease and then you can bring in the the rest of the team. Yeah.

54:06Vin Cardillo Right. Yeah. That and and that's, you know, I can't tell you how many dentists wait until like the day off. It's like we're like, okay, we we'd really love to sit and have a let's do a a a pre-sale dinner with everyone. No, no, you crazy. I can't tell them. It's like you you gotta tell them. I mean, what what are they you know, you're you're gonna tell they're gonna believe in you. They've been following you for 20 years, right? They're gonna believe you. Go go with it, believe in it.

54:13Dr. Jim Arnold my god, it's crazy. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. you know, I've had that conversation with dozens of dentists over the last eleven years and, you know, really helped walk them through that process. And I haven't seen too many d disastrous situations because, you know, they have handled it carefully and, you know, for the most part, they they've done a pretty good job with that. But, you know, they're also people who just hate change. Like no matter how you s sell it to them and they're probably not the right people to go forward with the program anyway, I guess.

54:51Vin Cardillo Well, exactly. Yeah, exactly. I mean, in that situation that I talked about, who knows? I look, I was aggressive on it and but still, I mean, you don't just get up and leave because of that. It it must have been like, Okay, we were gonna leave, so now's a great time. This is enough. Right. So I I didn't help the situation by any means, but right.

55:00Dr. Jim Arnold Mm-hmm. Exactly. There were other things going on, clearly. There was something going on with the culture there. So, you know, when you look at at scaling, and again, going back to emerging groups, like breaking through those barriers, you know, what are the things that really have to be centralized in order to speed up acquisitions and scale at the pace that you did?

55:29Vin Cardillo Well, centralizing, I mean, centralizing is really what what is your business model? What what what do you what what did you do with your first number of locations that has worked for you? And how do you believe what are your core values on certain things? Right? Like call centers, I yeah, I mean

55:39Dr. Jim Arnold Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

55:57Vin Cardillo You know, I don't I haven't seen a call center really work unless you've got thirty locations really. And yeah. Or or you're like these huge pedo ortho offices in California that have twenty-five chairs each and there's four of them, right? 'Cause they got a million phone calls. But your your your Brett your four your four to five chair dental practice with four of them, four eight offices, and you got a call center. Now you gotta hire the manager, manager people, it's just doesn't work, right? So I I think there's

56:00Dr. Jim Arnold You know what? I I've seen a couple Yeah. Sure. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

56:26Vin Cardillo There's centralization and now and not and now there's outsourcing, right? And is is it a hybrid model? So there's office level, centralized, centralized hybrids. So I I think it's I think it's what leadership believes in, and understanding how it impacts the practice. Now

56:36Dr. Jim Arnold Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. That's a great qu great answer.

56:50Vin Cardillo A lot of people just do it and do it wrong and then they gotta fix it. But there are a lot of questions, right? So if the answer is this simple, right? If you've got three offices today and we're gonna set up this policy and procedure, I always ask, okay, if you had 10 locations, will this work? If the answer is no, then then then change it. Make it so so

56:54Dr. Jim Arnold Right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

57:18Vin Cardillo People that we work with, we're making those decisions earlier. So when you do grow, you're prepped for it. But someone needs to know that to be able to tell you.

57:22Dr. Jim Arnold Mm-hmm. Yeah. Right. my gosh. Yeah, that's that's really good. You know what I like most about your answer though is going back to what you said first. It's like centralization of of ideas, philosophy and and processes. You know, before you're even thinking about call centers or different things related to economies of scale. It's more that that's almost central brain so that everything is running on that same operating system, I guess, to some degree.

57:32Vin Cardillo Right. Yeah, I mean even like the AR stuff. Do you centralize it or don't you centralize it? I can't tell you how many groups say, okay, well, look, we're gonna centralize the the the AR, the insurance part of the AR. And okay, great. So you do that, you got 10 locations, you hire four people for that, and you don't lose six people in the front. The only way that would make sense is because you're gonna save money.

57:58Dr. Jim Arnold Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

58:24Vin Cardillo Right. Outside of the fact that, you know, they're doing it wrong at the front. That's that's a training issue, right? People can be trained. So your efficiencies happen when I bring four in the back and I get rid of six up front. But all these practices keep everyone up front and add four more people. I'm like, that's not economies of scale.

58:30Dr. Jim Arnold You know Mm-hmm. Sure. Right, right. I I mean it's really all about efficacy and it's about efficiency. And you know, I I always have a problem with with groups or business owners who start cutting paper clips and thinking, that's the that's the secret to grow Ibitha. I mean, sure, you want to save where you can, but if you get too like focused on those little things instead of just blowing up the top end, I I think that a lot of times you miss you miss opportunity.

59:10Vin Cardillo One hundred percent. But it's difficult for someone that doesn't know what to do and no doesn't know where to go to look for where the opportunity exists or the problem lies. Right.

59:17Dr. Jim Arnold Yeah. Yeah. Do you see do you see that issue sometimes with D SO execs?

59:32Vin Cardillo Yeah.

59:32Dr. Jim Arnold Yeah. Dude, it's so funny. Like so many people are in positions that they shouldn't be in, you know, because of some degree or some Wall Street experience or something and you know, then they get into the dental space and they have no idea what's happening at the at the ground floor, you know, the boots on the ground and what they really need to be successful in that support and it you know, I've heard way too many times from that the the C suite, we'll just backfill that position, you know, without really any

59:50Vin Cardillo Yep.

1:00:01Dr. Jim Arnold appreciation for the relationship capital that you lose when, you know, Mary like walks away. You know, they're like, we might save two dollars an hour, you know, and then they lost a hundred thousand dollars of relationships. Yeah.

1:00:11Vin Cardillo Right. Exactly. Yep. Well they they they'll have to learn the hard way and they do.

1:00:17Dr. Jim Arnold Yeah, no, yeah, it's true. It's true. But th th well, they may run into problems and challenges, but they don't necessarily learn. That's that's been my experience. But you've been on both sides of the private equity game. You know, you you see what PE understands about enterprise value that most dentists don't.

1:00:26Vin Cardillo Yeah.

1:00:40Dr. Jim Arnold And what what is that?

1:00:40Vin Cardillo Well, again, just experience, right? Because because you know, we sold to PE the Florida deal. And then after when I got into consulting, a lot of my consulting was with with private equity firms, helping them create their thesis, doing management meetings, working with them on due diligence on projects, bidding on certain assets where where I would have stepped in as the CEO that we didn't we didn't win. So, you know, you you

1:00:55Dr. Jim Arnold Mm-hmm.

1:01:10Vin Cardillo you understand what they're doing, right? And and you help them bridge the gap.

1:01:12Dr. Jim Arnold T V

1:01:19Vin Cardillo for what they don't know about the industry. Right. So bridging their knowledge with this knowledge is helpful because you can interpret it for them.

1:01:21Dr. Jim Arnold Yes. Yes, exactly. That man, you read my mind. I mean, that's how I've always felt. I think having both, both, you know, both perspectives in C suite is super important, I think. And having both sides, like being super respectful of one another, you know, and recognizing what the other brings that they don't have. And what I've seen is when you have one or the other that doesn't respect their counterpart.

1:01:43Vin Cardillo Right.

1:01:54Dr. Jim Arnold you you run into a lot of problems because everybody feels like they have to be the smartest person in the room.

1:01:59Vin Cardillo Right. Right. But and then the other the the biggest thing is they don't understand each other, right? The dent the the dental executive that knows dentistry doesn't understand what's important to the private equity person. And the private equity person doesn't understand what's important to the dental person. I mean, I remember sitting in a in a I I don't know where we were. We were prepping for a management meeting or something with some group and

1:02:04Dr. Jim Arnold Yes. Yeah. Right.

1:02:26Vin Cardillo We're sitting they had some young kid from wherever he was, I don't know, Harvard or or whatever. And you know, they're everyone's gonna say what they gotta say. Well, you know, we can why why don't we just so what are the most imp you know, so let's go through and take a look at the procedures and which procedures are the are the most profitable? I'm like, okay, Joe, the most profitable procedure is oral surgery. We can't pull everyone's teeth out. So where would you like to go now? Right. It's you know, it's

1:02:52Dr. Jim Arnold Well, you know, and I can respect that from the standpoint of hey, we'd like to keep more treatment in house than we are right now. You know, whether that means bringing an oral surgeon a couple of times a month or bringing in dentists and getting them a continuing ed that they need to do more surgical procedures. So I I mean I can definitely respect that. But like you're not going out finding treatment.

1:03:01Vin Cardillo Yeah, yes. No, but this was, hey, let's do more of the more profitable procedures. Right. That's that's what that conversation was about. Why aren't they doing more of the more profitable procedures? All right. And I was like, because the the that means we would have to pull the tooth.

1:03:19Dr. Jim Arnold Good luck with that. Yeah. that's interesting. Right, right. Well, you know, and and it's interesting. I mean, you you can't paint the whole industry with a single brush. You know, I mean there's there's I think good PE, there's bad PE, there's great DSOs, or DSOs that aren't so great. There are DSOs that are shitty fit for one dentist, but a great fit for another. And so, you know, I think I think it's important to have an open mind. And, you know, if if you have somebody who can translate from the C suite to boots on the ground, well, you're a lot more likely to, you know.

1:03:36Vin Cardillo No. Yep. Yep, exactly.

1:03:57Dr. Jim Arnold have a cohesive unit and a a company that's capable of scaling, I think. So when you look, when you look at a lot of dentists, at least for me, one of the things I recognized early on was if every decision has to run through the dentist, like if if there's somebody that the practice is way too dependent on, it it it creates a lot of risk for buyers, doesn't it?

1:04:02Vin Cardillo Agreed. Yeah, and it's it's a lot of well, I mean it's a lot of pressure on the dentist, but the dentists put it on themselves too sometimes because they have difficulty creating accountability and letting go. And so now they're the they're the center of all this. And then they end up selling because of that because they can't they're they're they're tired of it, right? Whereas, you know what, had you created accountability and let people do what they had to do, you wouldn't have blown up at fifty nine years old and said you're done with it, you would have went to maybe seventy.

1:04:24Dr. Jim Arnold Mm-hmm. True. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Right, right. And by the way, your practice or practices would have been worth a lot more because there wasn't that concentration risk or key man risk that, you know, disciplined buyers look at and say, man, if that guy got hit by a bus or moved to Hawaii, th this practice is gonna be worth half of what it was right now.

1:04:53Vin Cardillo Right. Yeah. Exactly. I don't think I answered your question though. I think I went on a tangent.

1:05:08Dr. Jim Arnold No, no, that's okay. I we we both go on tangents. That's all good. I you know, when I but when I look at it, and I look at dentists, what's the best advice you would give to a dentist who is a bit of a micromanager who, you know, for twenty years has been doing everything him or herself?

1:05:24Vin Cardillo well you gotta let go, right? Or the question is how. Right. So the how is you gotta break up what is is such a problem for you to let go and break it down into pieces and let let one piece go at a time and hold that person accountable so then you can feel comfortable and have the trust.

1:05:29Dr. Jim Arnold Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah yes, right.

1:05:55Vin Cardillo Right. So so so and this here is one of the biggest things. This is gonna lead to confidence, right? This is one of the biggest things that Pronto does for dentists. Right. Because dentists are very smart people and they're not the first people to say, Hey, I don't know this. And the right it creates embarrassment if I'm asking you, hey, what's IBITANY? And you're well, I don't know it, I'm not gonna say it, and they make something up, right? So

1:06:05Dr. Jim Arnold Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Right.

1:06:24Vin Cardillo What I find a lot is that dentists really don't understand it. but once they have Pronto there and they start using it and they get trained on it and they start looking at things and they see what a budget is and they understand what it is. And now they start using it as a tool to manage the team, they become confident in their business because many of them.

1:06:28Dr. Jim Arnold Mm-hmm. Mm.

1:06:51Vin Cardillo are lost. They don't know if their practice is doing well. Like how does the dentist know if they're doing well? How do they know if they're making the right amount of money?

1:06:56Dr. Jim Arnold Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah, exactly.

1:07:03Vin Cardillo Right. So Pronto helps them do that. And what we see happening is once they're confident, now they're ready to go to another location. Without the discussion of us bringing it up at all, right? They're confident. Like, okay, I I I I get it. I understand it now.

1:07:17Dr. Jim Arnold Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That knowledge, that knowledge makes all the difference in the world. And when you have the tools necessary to act on that knowledge, like you do through a pronto platform and you know, and and some good coaching. Yeah.

1:07:35Vin Cardillo And the information's there for them so they can feel comfortable that everything's there. If these things are all green, I'm good. If we're hitting the budget, I'm good. There's nothing else to worry about. Right? There's no sense of making up another problem. So when when they're dentists, a lot of dentists don't know if they're they're if they're doing well. They think they're not because their friends are running around in Ferrari or whatever. And in the meantime, they're gonna go bankrupt. and so they're like and and they be

1:07:45Dr. Jim Arnold Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

1:08:04Vin Cardillo They create this negative energy in the practice and they're always looking for something wrong because they feel like they're missing out on something.

1:08:11Dr. Jim Arnold Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. And and you know, it you also it it's one of the tools. I mean, you give the team tools to where they can do their jobs better. And then the dentist is delegate not just delegating, but delegating and trusting. You know, that putting your mind at ease, being able to follow things more, you know, more in a more organized, cohesive fashion and having somebody else actually do it because they have this. I mean, that makes a big I think that makes a big impact. You know, going back to like six stages of transitions, you know, they all ask founders to to make changes. You know, what's what's the stage that asks for the biggest change from founders?

1:08:51Vin Cardillo I would say stage going from stage two to stage three. So stage one is one location, stage two is two to three, and then stage three is four. Right? So the usually the breakdown happens in stage two because in stage two you can still do it yourself. You're still running to office number two to produce that 10 grand extra that it needs, and then you can go to number three.

1:09:03Dr. Jim Arnold Okay. Okay. Yeah.

1:09:20Vin Cardillo You can still micromanage at three, but but you're working your tail off, you're you're not going to the gym, your marriage is interrupted, if you're not letting go. And so those people get stuck there, or things happen in their life, or they end up on getting rid of two of them and having one. Now, the dangerous people are the ones that just

1:09:23Dr. Jim Arnold Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Mm. Mm-hmm. So what's

1:09:50Vin Cardillo Drive through it and just go to five and and there is no accountability. It's like, okay, whatever, you we're gonna do that there, you're gonna do that there. So that's those are the two extremes.

1:09:51Dr. Jim Arnold Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well that sounds like the young Vin Cardillo who, you know, went to five and six months. Create chaos. But I mean, that's the thing about scaling. I mean, you have to have your shit together on the first location, second location before you go from there. Otherwise you just create more chaos and and more unprofitable practices. And and I mean I

1:10:03Vin Cardillo Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. I can't tell you how many practices, how many small groups where the main office does three and a half million of revenue and the doctor's making their eight hundred thousand dollars and then they got two or three other offices that loses all the eight hundred thousand. Tons of them. Tons.

1:10:33Dr. Jim Arnold Mm-hmm. my God. You know, Vin, and I used to see that too. I remember when I just had when I had two practices, I was making more money than friends of mine with 10, 12 practices for that same reason. I thought about, my God. It was part of the reason why I didn't even scale, scale more, like beyond three, because I thought, why would I want three to ten times the issues and people to make the same amount of money? I mean, I thought, what a nightmare that would be. And that's what I decided, you know what?

1:10:49Vin Cardillo Right. Exactly.

1:11:05Dr. Jim Arnold We're doing really well. Life is good. We have more than enough money and why would we go crazy like that? But

1:11:12Vin Cardillo Yeah. I mean there's some ego around that way. You go to these conferences the docks say, how much how many offices you got now? I got three. Okay, well, but we're losing money, you know.

1:11:15Dr. Jim Arnold yeah. sure. Well, you hear me, like I'm I'm almost apologetic. Well, I only had three. I have friends in Chicago who, you know, we were talking at a conference a few months ago and I I said, So how many practices do you guys have right now? And they were kinda like, we have eight. Like, like, eight? That's amazing. It's great. Do you have a good life? Yeah, things are good. You know, like that's that's good enough. So so when when you look at KPIs, like in stage three versus stage five, it

1:11:35Vin Cardillo Okay. Yeah. Right, right.

1:11:49Dr. Jim Arnold Do they mean different things? Do you have different KPIs that are more important from one stage to another? No. Same same things.

1:11:55Vin Cardillo No. KP, I think that I I I I would not No, I mean look your banking your banking relationship becomes a little bit different, you know, the bigger you get. Right. So when you get into real financial KPIs, those those become enhanced, right? You have more that you should look at. Right. But at a practice level, you gotta remember we're doing it the practice level, you got eight locations, and there's a good chance that, you know, if the systems are across the board.

1:12:07Dr. Jim Arnold Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

1:12:30Vin Cardillo You know, there's different things in different practices because some people aren't performing. And right. So this practice has these four issues. That one's got these six issues.

1:12:35Dr. Jim Arnold Mm, mm. Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. You know, looking at you, Vin and your, you know, three decades in dentistry, you know, i I didn't know this about you, but five years ago you went to MIT to get an AI in healthcare like program or whatever. Like, what? Like what the heck? Like, why did you go into that? What did you get out of it?

1:12:54Vin Cardillo yeah, I was one of those executive Yeah, that that was when they you know, that whole a lot of it was all around what what Overjet is doing, right? More on the clinical aspect of it, not on the business aspect and you know, how they're y using AI and with Mass General for for breast cancer research on that. So it was just it was really me trying to understand

1:13:10Dr. Jim Arnold Okay. Okay. Uh-huh.

1:13:29Vin Cardillo AI, right? And the problems with it, the efficacy where it could become a problem and how it takes off and completely goes in in the wrong direction and why it's extremely important to test dramatically when it's someone's health. But when you're running it on KPIs, it's not that big of a deal. But when when when you're searching for cancer and things of that nature and it's telling you cancer and it's not or whatever the case. So yeah, I mean, I because I knew that.

1:13:30Dr. Jim Arnold Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

1:13:58Vin Cardillo I didn't know what A AI was. I didn't even know what I was getting into, but I know that I needed to learn it for some stage of of getting into the Pronto thing. And so it was it was it was a real good course for sure. And I met a lot of cool people there.

1:14:03Dr. Jim Arnold Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, well, that's great. You know, it's sunny so funny, like so many experiences we have, you know, you learn things, you you pull bits and pieces into your next project, like you did with Pronto, of course. But but also sometimes it's those relationships that you make through that process. You know, it's like when I when I talk about like our Santorini luxury dental retreat coming up, you know, they're gonna get great education, they're gonna have like world class experiences, they're gonna have fine dining in one of the most beautiful places in the world, all of that, but it's the relationships, man.

1:14:41Vin Cardillo Yeah, if you're listening, sign up. Sign up. You should sign up once in a lifetime.

1:14:45Dr. Jim Arnold Dude, those five days though, those relationships, you know, the relationships that they make in five days are so intense because of all the shared experience. But like when you go through a program like that, you come out with with these, you know, I'm sure people with whom you had a lot in common and you know, you probably still keep in touch with some of those people. Yeah.

1:14:48Vin Cardillo yeah. Yeah, amazing. It was great. I mean a a lot more sm smarter people than I was. So it was good to surround yourself with intelligent. I mean, I couldn't, you know, the first couple weeks was like, What am I doing here?

1:15:08Dr. Jim Arnold Ha ha You know, I've always I wanna be the dumbest person in the world room because I wanna learn from people around me, you know, to you know, I think

1:15:20Vin Cardillo Yeah, exactly. I'm reading stuff like four times, like who okay, I think I get that.

1:15:28Dr. Jim Arnold Doesn't it seem like everybody else is getting it faster? Like, why why are they so smart? So, you know, when you look at Dennis now or people who are listening who like they're not out buying software, you know, maybe they're overwhelmed. There's so much selection. It's like there's so much overlap. It it's it's and let's be honest, I mean, a lot of a lot of systems are kind of doing similar things or the same things, but you know, there are differentiators, all that sort of thing. But some people are just sort of there's the whole paralysis by analysis, you know, syndrome.

1:15:30Vin Cardillo Yeah. my God, it's crazy right now. Horrible. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

1:15:57Dr. Jim Arnold And and they're not necessarily hiring of an advisor, they're just kinda like status quo. You know, what what would you recommend to those people?

1:16:06Vin Cardillo Hmm. Well, I I would recommend that they explore so they learn. I wouldn't just freeze and not do it because you don't know. Just have a lot of conversations with a lot of people and you're gonna learn. And after you have those conversations with a lot of people and you learn, you're gonna start to create a view.

1:16:15Dr. Jim Arnold Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

1:16:34Vin Cardillo In a belief, and you're gonna start to think about, okay, well, I this think this can really help my practice more than something else. So I, you know, I wouldn't just listen to whoever, I wouldn't just listen to, you know, your friend who got it, because that's what happens a lot in dentistry. Okay, you know, Mary's got it, so I'm getting it. It's like, okay, just spend a little time if if if if if you're up for it, have the conversations, get on the call with these people, ask them a lot of questions.

1:16:40Dr. Jim Arnold Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

1:17:02Vin Cardillo Right. And these salespeople don't even know what they're talking about, half of them. So just ask a lot of questions and just keep going to the next one and and you're gonna form a a view and you're gonna start to know what you want. And then when you do know what you want and you think you know what you want, you're gonna go back to the drawing board and your questions will be elevated because you've had so many other conversations before that.

1:17:05Dr. Jim Arnold Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well I I love that. Mm-hmm. Yeah, you know, it's all it's all like gathering intel, gathering knowledge, gathering information. And and let's be honest, too, so much of it is relationship-based too. You know, you find people you really trust and who you vibe with, who you know, you feel confident in whatever the the recommendation or advice they give. And you know, and and I tell you what, I've really enjoyed like playing that role as like the senior dentist now, you know, the old guy with with gray hair.

1:17:32Vin Cardillo Yep. That's it. Yep. Correct.

1:17:54Dr. Jim Arnold It's it's really fun to talk with you know, young dentists or dentists who have been, you know, in the business for 10 or 15 years and you know, just share that perspective, you know, and and look at different tools and look at different groups and look at different coaches and you know, help them help them make better decisions for sure. So when you look at when you look at Pronto and over the next 10 years, you know, like what's your vision? I mean, how do you see pronto like changing how like dental organizations are led?

1:17:55Vin Cardillo Yeah. Yeah, I think Pronto becomes the engine for management, right? So I think there's a time when the front desk is not having to figure out what to do. And every morning we're gonna give those people things to do. And we're gonna tell them what was completed and at what success rate. And we're also gonna tell the owners.

1:18:25Dr. Jim Arnold Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

1:18:51Vin Cardillo what success rate they are completing their stuff. Right. So accountability will become easier for the dentist. And we believe that taking

1:18:55Dr. Jim Arnold Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

1:19:13Vin Cardillo all of this technology that we're throwing on these front desk people out of their hands so they don't have to worry about that. I mean, I it's amazing to me that all of these software companies that where they're gonna set this technology at the front desk. I've never ever seen any of them do a focus group with front desk people ever.

1:19:31Dr. Jim Arnold Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Hmm.

1:19:37Vin Cardillo Right. It's with consultants that say, you gotta do this, you gotta that. Well, you sit your butt up front when you gotta log into the PMS system, then you're gonna go into the VoIP system, then you have to go into the the the the financing system to to get to get care credit, then you gotta go into Delta, and then you gotta go into Aetna. Like you can't how do you do it? So I think the you know, where pronto is gonna be moving is to eliminate that and manage it from the back end.

1:19:40Dr. Jim Arnold Yeah, right. Yeah. Hm. Yep. Mm-hmm.

1:20:06Vin Cardillo through IT and technology, and then providing humans to backfill the other pieces so they don't have to do it. And it would be mission critical, practice only stuff that they need to do. Call Mary Smith because we couldn't get a hold of her, this, that, and the other thing. And she needs to really get in there for this. So we're moving it off with technology and putting it on you. Or whatever the case is.

1:20:13Dr. Jim Arnold Mm. Mm-hmm. Wow. You know, I think that so often people who work in front offices of dental practices are are already overwhelmed. You know, you got people coming, people going, the phones ringing off the hook, you've got lists that you're supposed to be going through and and and then they see something like this. my God, another thing. But but you know, I I guess the reality is I think as a practice owner or a group owner, it's really imperative that you give tools that make their lives easier.

1:20:46Vin Cardillo Another issue. Yep.

1:20:57Dr. Jim Arnold And the irony in this is, you know, through the the data aggregation layer, bringing it all into one dashboard, it it's more information, but it's it's organized in a way that's way easier to understand and leverage in order to make improvements.

1:21:16Vin Cardillo One hundred percent. And and all that data, you really don't need to go look at it. It's really behind the scenes. We'll we'll we're gonna bury that one day, I think, because it's too overwhelming. All you do is hit your Pronto AI button once a quarter, and these are our worst things. What are we gonna create as our opportunities? And what you're looking at every day is certain things that you need to go look at because you y you got in your daily huddle, you got your opportunities, you got your PL, you've got your dashboard that tells you where you stand with the all your other metrics that are in.

1:21:21Dr. Jim Arnold Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Well, that's that's awesome. Well, Vin, you're honestly you you've become a really good friend here over the past year. I've really enjoyed, you know, getting to know you, spending some time together, these conversations. And I and honestly, I think you're you're this is gonna sound funny, but I think you're a gift to the industry, you know, because you are just a good guy who's done some really cool stuff. You've built some cool tools, and you know, I couldn't be more excited to, you know, continue to collaborate with you, you know, moving forward in the months, months and years ahead. So so thanks, man.

1:22:14Vin Cardillo Yeah, that's that's kind. I really appreciate that. You don't hear that a lot in the industry and it's really nice of of you and I appreciate it and super happy to be here and yeah, as you know, always happy to help you any way I can.

1:22:26Dr. Jim Arnold Well, I I appreciate it. And hey man, thanks, thanks for giving us so much time today. really enjoy the conversation. And if you listened to this today and feel like you got some value out of it, look look Vinny up at prontodental.com. learn more about what he's doing with Pronto and MAVA Dental Advisors. And if you want to hear more great podcasts, more great conversations, just go to Foundation Dental Podcast dot com and we've got a a whole slew of them and a lot of great information from industry leaders like Vin. Thanks again, Vin. Have a great day, man.

1:22:57Vin Cardillo Great. And don't forget to sign up for Greece.

1:23:00Dr. Jim Arnold Sign up for Greece. Let's go, baby.