I Should Be Dead

0:00Get out of the car. Don't ring the doorbell. Don't give him money. Don't buy drugs. Get I could not stop myself. The obsession had totally hijacked my brain. And, you know, and I I made it to the wake. Okay? And then I I I disappeared, and I I didn't make it to the funeral. And that was as low as as I had ever been emotionally. I I was not the person I set out to be. I was a dentist. I was in my my third year of practice. I just let my one of my best friends down. You're listening to the Foundation Dental podcast, strategic conversations for dentists and leaders building long term value in dentistry. I'm doctor Jim Arnold. Let's get into today's conversation. My guest today is doctor Brett Kessler. Most people would introduce Brett as the hundred and sixty first president of the American Dental Association, an Ironman World Championship finisher, a nationally recognized speaker, and one of the most influential leaders dentistry has produced.

1:00All of that's true, of course, but I don't think that's the real story. The story is that Brett spent most of his adult life reinventing himself from addiction and recovery to building a thriving fee for service practice. From a young dentist trying to find his footing to leading the largest dental organization in the world. From treating patients to mentoring students, shaping policy, and helping dentists reconnect with why they chose this profession in the first place. Brett's willing to talk about the parts of the journey that most people hide, the struggles, the doubts, the moments that changed everything. So today, we're talking about recovery, leadership, his experience in Kona, clinical autonomy, purpose, the future of dentistry, and what happens when a person decides they're not done growing.

1:40So Brett, welcome to the Foundation Dental podcast, my friend. Hey, Jim. Thanks for the the warm, introduction, and I think we're gonna have to clear out the rest of the week based on, how how things we're gonna talk about today. I'm very excited. A lot to talk about. Definitely. Now, you know, we've had some great conversations over the past couple of months. You know, I I've really enjoyed getting to know you, you know, just as a as a person, as a dentist, you know, outside of, you know, the the leadership and some of the other cool things you've done. And I I think that the the thing I like most is just how what you have to say really resonates with me. I think we look at the industry and kind of life in in similar ways.

2:15And Absolutely. And I'm just gonna interrupt you right here because I started playing around on TikTok. I have to share this with your audience. And and for some reason, you were the only person on my TikTok feed. And so I watched your your clips for, you know, every day, many times a day, different clips that you'd put out there, and I felt like I knew you. And then when you walked into the room at Podfest, Glenvos Podfest in Orlando, I was like, oh my god, Jim. I was, like, having, like, you know you know, there's a fanboy ing on you, man. I was like, I felt like I knew you right from the get go. So your your content is you know, it's it's authentic, and it it resonated with me in a big ways. And and I was so excited when, I got to sit down and and have dinner with you that night.

2:58So it's been awesome. Thank you. Hey, Brett. I I really appreciate that. That's awesome. I mean, I I think that that we're both the same way. We're kind of we're authentic and sort of transparent, and we're gonna talk about the good, the bad, the ugly. Because we both know that people can learn as much about the challenges we faced and overcome as they can about the things that just went great the first time. And so, you know, I appreciate that transparency. Yeah. And and also, god, we're about the same age. You know? We're we're both, you know I'm 56. I think you're 58. 58. When I when I think about that and the kind of the season of life and all that sort of thing, like, what do you look at that as far as that goes?

3:34What season of life do you think you're in now? Oh, well, I I still feel like I'm in my twenties, first of all. My my energy level is there, and, my physicality is not quite there. I'm working on that, but but I feel like I've got an awful lot to offer. I've reinvented myself several times in my career Mhmm. And I'm in a reinvention process right now where, you know, I so as you mentioned, I was president of the American Dental Association. My term I did last October, so I'm about eight months out of that. And but I exited that job as literally the most informed dentist in the world. My portfolio of experience is unlike any other dentist gets to experience. And and and you know? So I'm I'm looking for ways to leverage that experience to continue to drive the profession forward in the best interest of everybody, not not only the the profession, the dentists and the hygienists and the assistants and the the, you know, whatever workforce, but the patients.

4:32You know? And and they will all benefit. The better we are, the better we can do, and the better we can make our our communities. And and so that's where I'm I'm looking, you know, for just kinda leverage the contribution. And I'm not in clinical practice right now. Mhmm. And and and I and there's nothing I was I loved being a dentist. Don't get me wrong. I was damn good at it. And and I and I think it's a noble a noble effort that I could I could still do it, but I would only be able to affect one person at a time. Yeah. And I wanna go all in and, you know, really try and influence and and and improve communities. And, you know, as president the ADA, I was able to you know, my decisions, my my my, you know, you know, comments and my my writings all affected millions of people and, hopefully, for the good.

5:20And, you know, it wasn't always, so well received, and it still isn't always so well received. But but I'm I'm the kind of guy that, you know, will speak his truth. I'm the kind of guy that when when I think something is right, I'm gonna I'm gonna say it. When I think something is wrong, I'm gonna say it. And and I've got a platform now where I can. I love it. You know, and and that really resonates because that's what we were talking about before we got on the air too. You know, just about how so many people kinda say the things they think everybody wants to hear. And guess what? Not everybody wants to hear it. So why not be our authentic selves and tell it like it is, knowing that some people are gonna agree and some people are gonna completely disagree.

5:58And, you know, I think it's I think it's fantastic that you as somebody who is in dental politics for so long have that have that sort of mentality. It's refreshing. So I I just I I did really dislike the term dental politics and you know, I I I went in to leadership roles. And and and but I had to play politics for, you know, to get some things across and stuff like that. But I always played leadership role first, and politics was a was a a strategy to get things across the line. And but but, you know, I I was never someone who's gonna, you know, tell you what you wanna hear if I don't believe it. Mhmm. And so, anyway, it's a it's been a heck of a heck of a run, and I still think my best years are ahead of me.

6:42Yeah. That's a great that's a great outlook. You know, I think a lot of people, they get to that that pinnacle, that peak, you know. It's kind of something they wanted to do professionally throughout their career and then they get there and then they kinda ride off into the sunset. At least that's been my perception in the past. But you're that guy who's like, hey, man. This is just the start. You know? I got a lot more things to do because I what I love about it is I'm exactly the same way. Thirty years in, I'm like, I'm more energized and more excited than ever about, you know, sharing our perspective, you know, from this stage, just having the experience, the knowledge, and the relationships that we have.

7:17Yeah. And I don't know. It's it's dentistry is in a time of of major flux right now. And, and and I think there's so many amazing opportunities. And I've never in my mind, I really feel the best years of dentistry are right ahead of us as well Mhmm. As we, really, you know, recognize how important oral health is to overall health. And it's time for us to start acting that way. And I think as that happens, every bit of our problems will go away. We'll challenge with new new problems, of course, as we, you know, toe hold this road, I guess, is what that's what it says. Yeah. So but but that's that's what it is. You know? And I I went in. It was never my goal to be president of the ADA. That was never my intention.

8:04You know, I I didn't go to president school. I didn't you know, it was it was just, you know, it just it was leadership opportunities that that, you know, were put in front of me, and I I felt like I can maximally impact from from every role that I chose to be in.

8:21And if I didn't see a a way that I can impact in the role, I would leave the role. And so it it it is interesting. I was one of the youngest I'm the youngest president of the ADA in decades, and it was only succeeded by doctor Rich Rosado, who's eight months younger than me. Okay? So he's now the youngest one. Yeah. But but, typically, the president would just kinda roll off into the sunset. Mhmm. And that was their, you know, the lifetime achievement award. And and Right. You know, which is great. But I I really wanted it as a as a catapult to to do something to continue pushing. So I wanna pivot. You know, I think everybody knows you kind of as the the former ADA president, and it's a big part of your story.

8:59But what do you want people to know about just, Brett Kessler, the guy? I I have a zest for life. Every day is an opportunity to have, experience my best life, and this was, you know, the genesis of it was, you know, I hit my bottom in 1998. I had a pretty bad substance abuse problem that that finally got out of so far out of control that I was willing to do what it took to get better. And honestly, Jim, I I should be dead. And 10/21/1998 was my is my sobriety date. And but that was the day that I really looked at. I was at a crossroads. Do I wanna live or do I wanna die? And I really had that those are my two choices. It wasn't, do wanna be a dentist? Do wanna be no. It was it was, do I wanna live or do I wanna die?

9:43Because I was on a track towards death if I continued along that way. And and some some health scares during the the trip to the bottom, and and I feel like I've come out of it, you know, and and given a a second chance in life to and I don't wanna waste a single minute of it.

10:03And so, you know, I guess, you know, getting to that that bottom gave me gives me perspective that, you know, what what are really true problems in in life, what are what is truly a bad day.

10:16That was a bad day. I had some some days that didn't go so well, but nothing like that bad day. Well well, you know, looking back at that, like, the moment that you knew something had to change, like, what did that day look like from the inside? Well, I'll I'll I'll describe the circumstances first. So I I went to rehab about a year, fourteen months prior, and I went to rehab because I took my staff from Flint, Michigan to Chicago. I dropped them off at the hotel. I called my drug dealer, and I disappeared. And that was my you know, the first time that I ever, you know, suffered any kind of consequence and, you know, was outed per se. And the you know, so I went to rehab, but I didn't resonate with what they told me in rehab.

11:01You know, I'm I'm a pretty smart guy, and and most of us who are in dentistry are pretty smart as well. And, you know, when we had challenges, we just dig in to learn everything we can about those challenges, and then we overcome, and then we move on. And that was my my goal, you know, learn as much as I could about, you know, substance abuse. And, and then when I exited treatment, they they told me if you're truly an addict and truly an alcoholic, you will drift back to your old ways. So you really have to treat this on a daily basis, You know, like a you know, manage it like a chronic disease. And I'm just like, no. No. You know, thanks for the information. And yeah. But within a few months, I was relapsing again, and I could not stop myself.

11:43And that was that was pretty scary. So my my my bottom was my best friend's mother passed away, and I drove back to Chicago. I grew up in Chicago and, you was living in Michigan at the time. And so back in the late nineties, cell phone coverage wasn't so robust, and there was a a blank spot between, like, Kalamazoo, Michigan and the Indiana state border and, where there's no cell service.

12:07And and it was about an hour, an hour and a half of time I'm in the car, and the thought popped in my head. Maybe I'm gonna call the dealer. You know? I haven't talked to him in a while. He's a good guy. We should catch up. We should go hang out. We should I wonder if he's he has any drugs and and, you know, and I could not stop obsessing over it. And I knew as soon as I got over the Indiana state line, cell coverage would turn on again because I've made that trip many, many times. And as soon as the cell service came back on, I dialed his number and hit send, and I could not stop myself. Don't dial the number. Don't hit send. Don't drive to his house. Don't get out of the car. Don't ring the doorbell. Don't give him money.

12:47Don't buy drugs. Get I could not stop myself. The obsession had totally hijacked my brain. And, you know, and I I made it to the wake. Okay? And then I I I disappeared, and I I didn't make it to the funeral. And that was as low as as I had ever been emotionally. I I was not the person I set out to be. I was a dentist. I was in my my third year of practice. I just let my one of my best friends down. Everybody knew it, and and I could not stop myself. I could not outthink the addiction. You know? And and, you know, because I thought it was a weakness of will, but it truly was a hijacking of the brain. And that's the that's what most people don't understand if if you're in it. I'm a pretty smart guy. I graduated very high in my class and and and I got into dental school.

13:35I did a I was in a very prestigious GPR, but I could not outthink this. I could not fix my broken brain with my broken brain. I think that's an important message for people to understand. You know, I think that a lot of us smart people do think we can just figure out stuff on our own. But, I mean, that is a a physical dependency. I mean, it's a a biochemical process that you can't outthink or outrun. You've gotta you gotta get that that that therapy. And I would expand it to all mental illness. Mhmm. You can't just pull up your boots and, you know, keep moving forward with a brave face and and, you know, I needed help and I was ready. And and that was the the key. When I went to rehab, I thought I was ready, but I didn't relate to the people that I was in rehab with.

14:18Mhmm. Yes. They were health care professionals, doctors, nurses, dentists, you know, but they had they were way older than me. I was 29 years old. They were in their sixties and seventies, and they had marital problems. They had legal problems. They had licensure problems. They had financial problems. They had health problems. And I didn't have any of those. I just thought I, you know, made some bad choices. Yeah. And I didn't recognize it as a as a disease. At this point, a year and fourteen months later, whatever, I I I I recognize that I'm I'm screwed. If I keep doing this, I'm gonna die. And even if I live, I'm not the person I wanna be. And I it's time to make changes. And and when that happened, some switch flipped in my brain that I was in a growth mindset as opposed to a fixed mindset, and I was willing to listen and willing to take the advice of the, of the treatment professionals and treat my disease for what it was, a chronic manageable disease, chronic progressive manageable disease.

15:10Yeah. Well, you know, you've probably seen me say this online, you know, because I do refer to it quite a bit. You know, the my first day of dental school in '92, they told us, hey, you know, you're entering a profession that at that time they said had the highest substance abuse, highest divorce, and highest suicide rates of any other profession.

15:28And and I really was shocked. I mean, genuinely because my experience had been so positive. I'd never had a cavity. I go to the dentist. He sees me for three minutes and, you know, done. And he has a nice house, a nice car, and well, that was my perception of dentistry. And Right. Think that it really it really threw me, Brett. And then, you know, you get out and you see all the things that that young dentists are dealing with or dentists of any age, I should say, and and just how incredibly stressful it can be. And and then to see people going through the things that that you went through, I don't know. I I guess I look at that and it puts you in a really unique position to to really impact the industry in a positive way as far as that goes.

16:08Yeah. We have a, a mental health crisis going on within our profession. Anywhere, there's two studies that show anywhere from fifty six percent to eighty two percent of our colleagues that are experiencing signs of clinical burnout. And so mental illness is way up, substance abuse is way up, suicide is way up, which is, you know, it drives me absolutely crazy. I wish we can, you know, just if we can stop one person from making that decision, know, I feel like we've we've done something successful. But anxiety is way up and dentistry's hard. Mhmm. I feel that, you know, coming back into, you know, scope of of where the profession is, you know, seven, eight years ago, US News and Report rated dentistry as the number one profession in this country, not just health profession, but profession.

16:53Wow. And it it really, you know, gave us this purse this this perception that, you know, go be a dentist. It's easy life just like what you described. You know? You got a nice house, got a nice car. They they are always happy and stuff like that. And, you know, it was like a license to print money. Right? Right. And so these these dental students are coming in with this in their mind, then they they get out and they it's like, man, this is hard. Dental school is hard, you know, and practice is hard, and it's hard to find a job. It's hard to make ends meet. And so, you know, we've got this, you know, unrealized expectations and that were set falsely by an independent, you know, resource that a lot of people read.

17:31And Yeah. You know, and it's still today. You know, dental school applications are are hitting record numbers every single year, and the cost of training our colleagues goes up every single year because of supply and demand. And, you know, I I visited 30 some dental schools over the last two years, and, you know, and I always tell them I'm a d 35 from the University of Illinois. You know? And and because, you know, when when yeah. When you're when you're you you leave school, that's when your education really begins. Don't ever stop being a student of the profession. Mhmm. And because it's hard, and I and I I'm pretty blunt with them, and I say, you know, you get out and you are competent. Okay? Where you're just good enough to not really hurt somebody, but you're nowhere the dentist you're gonna be five years from now, ten years from now.

18:16You're gonna grow. But don't expect to be, you know, that ten year dentist. You need ten years of experience to be that ten year dentist. The only way to get experience is get experience Yeah. And be patient with yourself. And so that that was that's always been my message to the students starting out and the new dentists and our colleagues that are starting out is to be patient with yourself and keep growing. Such good advice. And I I think that, that's true for every kind of season of our career. I know that whenever I got into a rut, when I was still a practicing dentist, whenever I felt like, I just wasn't my best self, that's when I knew I had to get out. I had to get out and either do some CE or just spend time with my tribe.

18:57And then we could maybe commiserate over some of the things that some of common, you know, issues that we all dealt with and just knowing that you're not alone. And I think that's one of the things a lot of dentists feel like they're they're out there on an island, and nobody else is experiencing what they're feeling right now. But you and I both know that we all feel those things at at some point in our career. Right? Yeah. And like I said, anywhere from fifty six to eighty two percent of our colleagues are experiencing this. Yeah. Okay. It's not a couple. It's it's it's that many. Well, I have seen a a bigger focus. I mean, there are quite a few people like you and me and Jeff Buskey and some others who are really focusing on the the mental health crisis.

19:34Yeah. I think that Yeah. Since the pandemic, it's only gotten worse. And and it's unfortunate, you know, when you when you look at a profession that was rated like the best profession you could be in, and it is in so many ways. It's just a it's just a shame. But, you know, I wanna I wanna pivot a little bit. I wanna go back to kinda, like, early on in your career. You know, you you know, you talk about values. And when you when you build a team, you gotta all have shared values. You gotta be on the same page. You gotta be, you know, focused on the same principles that, you know, put the patient first and, you know, build a great culture and all that good stuff. Early in your career, you had you walked away from a I think you had $250,000 loss at some point because your values didn't align.

20:15And and, you know, that's a loss, but in some ways, was that actually a gift? Oh, 100%. You know, I've learned more from my failures than I have from my successes. Good. You know? And so can I can I even go a little further back on how that decision was made? Please, dude. So so, you know, I did a a general practice residency at Northwestern Memorial Hospital in Chicago right after dental school, which was an amazing experience. And, you know, not only did it set the foundation for, you know, that the that the mouth is connected to the body and I practiced that way my entire career. And I used the tools for my GPR every single day in my practice life. But that was really neat. It was the the the head of the program was the dentist to the stars of Chicago.

20:57And he was, you know, doing these amazing rehabs on celebrities, and, you know, we were the dentist to the Chicago Cubs, I got to do some dental work on one of the home run hitters, and I'm not gonna say who. But it was it was, you know, first year out of dental school. I feel like, you know, this was the the way. You know? Right? My wife moved us to Michigan. She did her orthodontic training at University of Michigan, and I chose a job in Flint, Michigan. You know, Flint, Michigan in late nineties was not an economic mecca of the world. Was, you know, 30% poverty rate, 35% unemployment rate. General Motors had pulled out and just left that town devastated. Mhmm. So the I and it was 60 miles from Ann Arbor where I lived.

21:40But I chose it because the guy I decided to work for, his name's Rob Terry. Rob not the famous Rob Terry. It's a different Rob Terry. But Rob was doing the same kind of dentistry on United Auto Workers that my boss was doing on a list celebrities in Chicago. Amazing. And that fascinated me. Okay. I I thought this was only for the rich and famous. How do know, and he's he taught me about, you know, being able to provide value for what we offer to our patients. And, you know, and if they appreciate the value enough, they will say yes. And so he sent me down to train with Pete Dawson, and he got me on the track of the the the Pankey Institute and things like that. Really, and, you know, we're the best dentists in the world.

22:21We're we're training and teaching, and and that's what I wanted to be. And and so but but Michigan, you know, wasn't, in our cards. I didn't, you know, it wasn't where I wanted to live, and my wife was graduating. We had just had a kid, and she's like, let's move to Colorado. We love it there. Let's start our lives and live them out there. And I was like, really? Don't tease me. I don't want you know? And then don't get my hopes up and then pull the rug out from under me. She's like, no. Just get a job and, you know, we'll make it work. And so I moved to Colorado, and I I I joined in with a practice that was, you know, Downtown Denver. Was a high end boutique cosmetic practice. And, you know, and and after a year of being an associate with with him, he I bought in as a partner.

23:03And as I bought in with a partner, you know, something in my gut wasn't right. You know, it just didn't feel right to me, and I started to think long term. And, you know, I was young. I was about, you know, three years sober at the time, first of all, and just getting my way in my life. And then so but early in my sobriety, have jump back a little bit too. Nine months in, someone handed me the the book, Seven Habits of Highly Effective People Mhmm. And by Stephen Covey. And that book just I don't know what it was, but it resonated with me on on a core core level. And not only did I read it, but I did the exercises. And then, you know, in that book, it it, you know, challenged us to do it, you know, to figure out, you know, how we wanna live our lives and to figure out to determine what are your core values, what are your, you know, your mission, what is your vision for your life and things like that.

23:50And so I was just getting started with learning who I am and what I stood for and where I wanted to go. It's my, you know, again, is my second chance at life. Yeah. And I didn't see working with in in this in this environment as a as a long term road to happiness and fulfillment. And so there were, you know, different, you know, definitions of values that that, you know, right or wrong, whatever, I I just didn't resonate. And I wasn't sleeping well. My serenity was being affected. And and when I get stressed, you know, and I'm struggling, I start writing. Okay? And and I still do that today, and I'm sure we'll get to that later. But, you know, I started writing, you know, if I were to build a practice, how can I avoid this feeling of angst because there were system problems and, you know, and communication problems?

24:44And so I started writing standard operating procedures. Yeah. And he he didn't really want any part of it. And I just okay. I just kept writing because it was cathartic. And but ended up, you know, realizing that this was not gonna be my long term future. And I Mhmm. You know, sold back the partnership, I lost a bunch of money on the deal. But I gained back my soul is what I wanna say. And and I feel like that was because early in recovery, especially, my serenity is much more important than money. You're gonna make money and lose money over the course of your career, and I I never defined my worth by my bank account. It was by my by my impact. That's great. I still feel the same way. And, yeah, I could I could be richer.

25:21It's amazing because of my thirty years in dentistry. But but when I sold it back, I I made a point to, you know, I'm gonna start my own practice, not even You did that you did that in a neighborhood that everybody said was a wrong neighborhood. Like, you shouldn't do that. You sure can't do fee for service there. You told me last week we were having that you even you had a business plan you put together and it was so precise, so specific down to the color of the carpet or something like that. Yep. Like, tell us. Tell me about that. Like like, this whole plan and and, like, why did you go where they told you not to go and and did it anyway? That's funny. It it's true though. But I I you know, again, we out of, you know, frustration, I write.

26:01And and and, you know, I had a business coach that helped me put on my writing into a business plan. And and it was granular to the point of the color of the carpet, color of the walls. It was granular to the point of who I wanted to surround myself with in my team, not necessarily picking the person out, but what values they had and what they wanted out of their career and how can I provide it with them? And and and and so, you know, I would shop this. It was about 80 to 90 pages. I can't even remember. I gotta find it because I keep talking on it. I gotta find it. But but I go to these banks and show archives somewhere. It's probably in a corner in my garage, to be honest with you. But I I I I would kind of, you know, take this business plan around to the banks and, you know, and they'd open it up only to the spreadsheet of the financial projections.

26:47Yeah. And they were just, you know, basing my whole worth on my financial projections, and I was pissed. And I went to my business coach, and I'm like, what the heck? You know? I I did all this time in, you know, developing this vision. He's like, no, Brett. That the the other 87 pages, those were for you. Okay? That's your business plan. That's how you run your business. The all they care about is the money. And he was so right. But when I realized that, that was my first vision statement Very out of Covey's book. Yeah. And, you know, this is who I I wanna be in my professional role. This is what I wanna do with it. This is how I wanna impact not only my patients, but the community. And and and, you know, and so it was in Northeast Denver where the old Stapleton Airport was.

27:35And, again, growing up in Chicago, the Glenview Naval Air Station closed down, you know, many years prior, and they turned the Glenview Naval Air Station neighborhood into this amazing redevelopment in the North Side Of Chicago.

27:49And the Stapleton redevelopment, again, another air air airport was gonna be, like, five times bigger than the Glenview project. And I'm like, I'm jumping on this because I knew how successful it was in Chicago. Wow. And so I was the the first business to open up in all of the Stapleton area. It's now called Central Park, but, but, but that was the first business. There was no nothing. There was maybe a 100 homes at the time, and the plan was to have 10,000 homes. 35, 40,000 people were gonna move there. And, but it was in a part of Denver that wasn't so nice. Yeah. And, but perspective wise, you know, I just came from Flint, Michigan, and I practice a little bit in Detroit, Michigan. And, you know, they had a different definition of not so nice.

28:35Okay? There were no crack vials on the on the sidewalk. There were no homeless people hanging around. I mean, it was it was really, you know, just a lower income, you know, part of town at that moment. Now it's one of the most astute neighborhoods in in Denver. And, yeah, we I took a chance. Anticipated them. You know? Again, going back to your experience in Chicago and seeing what had happened around that, that airport that shut down and to anticipate that, that's that's pretty, that's pretty remarkable. I mean, did the did the growth of that area happen quickly, or did it take a long time? Yeah. There were, you know, what, three to 4,000 new homes every year built. Oh, wow. You know, for any any new dentists or dentists who are considering opening up a scratch start, you know, open up where there's positive population growth.

29:21That's, you know, that's that's where it is, where, you know, they they're coming into this neighborhood without a dentist. Mhmm. Okay? And so Yeah. You know, you could be that one. And I was I was that one for a while. There there's, like, 15 dental offices in the neighborhood now, but, but I had a a special niche of of what I wanted to do. And, again, it was very well articulated in my business plan. And, and out of frustration, you know, the the the the failed partnership and I'm not even gonna call it a failed partnership. It was a partnership opportunity that didn't work out but taught me a shit ton. Okay? And and I and I you know, so you could say I lost a bunch of money. But no, that was an investment in my knowledge, you know, gaining my experience that I needed to do.

30:02And so I was able to, you know, I had a vision for the kind of dentistry I wanna do because that was a fee for service practice. My practice and and when I was in my GPR, it was a fee for service practice. The Flint one was not. Yeah. But but You I both agree that the fee for service practice is is much better for the dentist, much better for the team, certainly better for patients and that sort of thing. But, you know, you got it right. I know I got it right. But where do dentists go wrong when they think about making that shift? It's a difficult business model. Mhmm. Okay? And so you really need to know who you are and what you stand for and to be able to communicate it in ways that is attractive Mhmm.

30:43To potential clients. Yeah. And a lot of dentists, first of all, I don't wanna I don't wanna take offense to this, they don't have the the the inner knowledge of who they are, what they stand for, what they wanna provide, and why they what why they can, you know, create a niche Mhmm.

30:59That people or how they can create a niche where people will take money out of their pocket and hand it over to them. Mhmm. Okay? Yeah. There's, like, what, $80,000,000,000 in sales on big screen TVs every year. Most of them right before the Super Bowl. Mhmm. Okay? And, but yet there's no big screen TV insurance that helps to pay for that. Right. And people, if they want a big screen TV, they they value that big screen TV and whatever bells and whistles that come with that big screen TV, they want to, you know, they wanna purchase it. And so they so they do. And so I was able to sell a solution to a problem that most people didn't know they had. Mhmm. And and this all was born out of the the the learnings that I got from the teaching of Pete Dawson and the Penke Institute early on in my career that that the kind of dentistry that I wanted to do Mhmm.

31:54Involved complex thinking. And and and, you know, so I was I only wanted complex patients. Mhmm. Okay? I wasn't a cleaning type office. Okay? I I was looking for people who valued their health and were willing to invest in it. And so is it I gotta say that's pretty impressive because I I went through Pankey, and, like, all the other continuums and whatnot. And I got back to my hometown and my practice, and I had a hard time wrapping my brain around that, you know, every single workup to the extent that that they did it and everything because I didn't have celebrity patients, and I didn't have people flying in to see me.

32:34And I always looked at it kinda that way. Now I was fee you know, but we were very much, a bread and butter oriented practice. You know, we had everybody was coming in for the cleanings twice a year or three times or four times a year depending. And and again, everything was fee for for service. And then we got into more of the caviar, doing the big cases, getting to do some of that fun stuff that I learned. But I didn't have the guts to just say, hey. This is it. This is what I'm gonna do. It was fee for service, but it wasn't, you know, to the exclusion of like, some of those, like, little kind of, you know, more routine things. So that's Yeah. It was it easy. Was easy to, you know, kinda backtrack a bunch of times because I wanted to be, you know, I wanna be involved in the neighborhood.

33:18And and I was the only one for a little while. And Yeah. And but but they were mad when I didn't take their insurance. Mhmm. And and I had to really come to terms with the fact that I wasn't in business to be everybody's dentist that could provide everything. Yeah. I was looking for people who were invested in their health and were willing to pay for it. And they, you know, and they they sought me out. I I did some really good PR Mhmm. And it was bigger than my neighborhood. Let's put it like that. So, you know, my my early marketing, honestly, Jim, I'm a runner. I would take my, you know, my my little brochures. I'd print them up in my my printer at home. I'd fold them up into three in in a piece of paper, and I would run-in through the neighborhood, and I'd drop it off in every single person's house.

34:02Oh, that's you know? Wow. So and as that grew, I hired a a high school kid to do it for me, and he hired some of his friends, and they made a bunch of money doing it. Oh my gosh. And, but then, you know, I I I recognize that, you know, I'm not gonna attract everybody that I want to attract here. And, and then so I I I started doing some PR and some marketing and establishing myself as a as a cosmetic or aesthetic dentist, but it was more than that. You know? It was it was it was it was health first. Mhmm. It was functional second. And then once that was figured out, then it was was was aesthetics. And and so and so I was an engineer before I was a dentist. Biomedical engineering was my background. And so I looked at everything as an engineering design project.

34:46And, know, and and so I attracted people, especially around, you know, facial pain in the early two thousands. And, and I was good at it because I can I can understand, and I was sympathetic? Right? I'm not sorry. I was empathetic with my patients and but I couldn't do a bike guard for somebody for $200 because that's what insurance covered and get them well. Sometimes it took a year before I got them well, and I needed to be able to Yeah. To to to bill for that. Otherwise, I couldn't do the work I wanted to do. And so under the and and no offense to to benefits, benefits don't reflect essentialism for the individual. Okay? And for these facial pain people, they needed time to process and heal that didn't happen with a $200 night guard.

35:33Okay? What happened was, you know, 20 visits with me. Okay? And and that doesn't cut the you know, that's 2 and $200, that's $2 a visit. Okay? That doesn't work. And you you alluded to the fact that, I mean, you really have to be able to create value to to communicate effectively, create value, and have that relationship with the patient where they just knew they're in the right place. You know, they sought you out because they already felt that. And then when they got there, what they thought is exactly what occurred. And you know what? My whole career, Brett, I had people saying, oh, you're so lucky. You're fee for service. You're so lucky. I'm like, you know what? It's a lot it's a lot harder because it does take higher level of, leadership, communication, value creation, team build.

36:16All those things, all those all those those things are they're critical details that a lot of people kind of overlook. And that's why I'm super excited about the the fee for service mastermind. You know, to be able to have like someone like you on my faculty who lived that, actually built that in his career and understands why it's so important to have that that mindset.

36:39That identity piece has to be there first because if you don't have that, if you don't have the belief in it, the belief in yourself, the belief in your team, then you're never gonna be able to project that to to patients and have them pay more out of pocket.

36:52Right? Yeah. And and I'll be honest with you. It's not like I so, you know, I opened it from scratch. No patient. And I'll tell you, the day we opened, I unlocked the door and I pop my head out, look to the opposite to the right, like, anybody gonna be coming in today? You know? We're here. We're open. You know? And it's like, it's a scary proposition. It's gone. And and and when I did a bunch of bite guards and occlusal guards, occlusal splints, we'll call them. I call them bite guards because that's what patients like to hear it. And Yeah. But it was a it was an orthotic. Mhmm. It wasn't a paired here's a piece of plastic, go chew on it. It was an orthotic. It was highly, you know, designed. It was very carefully designed and and, you know, and it taught me an awful lot about the patients.

37:34But, you know, my patients, like I said, they they were invested in their health and willing to pay for it. So they were already healthy. Yes. It wasn't a caries management, you know, feed for my my income here. Okay? Right. But I did a lot of occlusal splints. And I remember I was scared to death because my working capital had just run out. It was sink or swim time. It was about six months in, eight months in. And the Rocky Mountain Dental Convention was happening, I invited I was I was on their leadership and and and I and I was part of the the education committee for the Rocky Mountain. And I invited Leanne Brady and Mark Murphy, two very good friends of mine, Panky mentors, you know, to Yep. Come speak to us in Denver, the Rocky.

38:19And then I hosted them at night. Mark had to go home afterwards, but Leanne Brady and I and, my one of my mentors and dear friends, Cliff Litfak from Penke, we were to go to dinner. And I made reservations at one of my favorite restaurants downtown, and they showed up, like, 30 late. I was so pissed. Okay? I'm like, what the you know, we're gonna lose our table. It's crowded, you know, and I was really angry. And we finally sit down. Leanne asks me, so how's the practice going? How's this going? How many I what I realized afterwards, they were late because they were treatment planning my career. Oh. Wow. They were discussing how can we talk to Brett to to to to the the values that he set out to do and take it to the next level.

39:07And he and in the middle of it, they're like, well, how many splints are you doing? I'm like, oh, I'm doing a ton, but there's no carries. You know? I'm not doing a lot of restorative and and stuff. Like, well, how many equilibrations are you doing? And I'm like, and Leanne's like, why aren't you doing equilibrations? Like, hey. I was scared. Yeah. Right? Scared to death. You could no. No. What if I mess them up? Yeah. That too. And and I, you know, and I didn't know. I didn't believe in myself, but they saw, like, saw something in me that I didn't see in myself, and they they encouraged me to to explore it. That's what mentorship has been for me. Okay? And and I've got this saying and observation of my life that they're you know, when you're on a a purposeful path that angels will appear along that path with a message for you.

39:56And they'll they they were those angels that night. There's been so many of them. You're one of them too, like I said when we started. But but Leanne said, well, Brad, are you dipping your toes in the jacuzzi, or are you gonna jump in? Wow. You know it's the right thing. You know how to do it. I've seen you do it. Do it. Okay? Take your practice to the next level, and that's what it took. Okay? So it's not like I just kinda, you know, opened up and life was great. It was it was hard. Yeah. My own personal development had to happen. My evolution had to happen, and the practice had to build. Yeah. And as I got more and more confident at it, you know, I had things so I I did take one plan to start. Okay? And one of my patients paid me, I don't know, like, $17,000 for some you know, we did an equilibration on her.

40:40We put her in through the whole occlusal therapy. I did, you know, six veneers and a couple crowns on her, and it was just gorgeous. A beautiful case and a beautiful lady and a great friend. And and then after I delivered it, she was so happy. We had tears, and, you know, we shared tears together because it was it really changed her life. And she's, oh, by the way, can you submit it to my insurance? And I'm sure, sure. You know? She's like, I know. And she sold insurance. Okay. That was her job. Okay? And and she's like, know I'm not gonna get a lot, but I'll, you know, take the thousand dollars that I am due. Mhmm. And, so I I did it. And I was a participating member. It was a very small part of the practice, and and and but I I I submitted it.

41:20And I got in a a couple weeks later a letter from the insurance company saying that I had to give back, like, 7 or $8,000 to the patient. I was like, my heart sank. Okay? Brutal. And and, of course, they sent it to the patient too. Mhmm. And and this was a time when that insurance company didn't share their fee schedule with their providers. Okay? Yeah. Mean, the games they play, they continue to play drives me crazy. That's exactly why I never wanted to be on it. Okay? And so, anyway, I got the letter. The patient got the letter. I was like, how am I gonna you know? And, again, another scary moment. I gotta, you know, to figure out how do I wanna communicate this. I didn't have the money to give back to her at the time or early on.

42:06I needed it. So, anyway, she called me, And I was like, okay. Here we go. We're gonna have the conversation. She's like, yeah, Brett. I just got this letter from the insurance company, and they want me to they want you to give me back $8,000. And the next thing she said to him, I swear to god, she's like, how do you plan to stay in business and be on this plan? Work you do, the work you do, holy cow. I don't think you could can you do it for half the cost? Yeah. I was like, no. She's like, you ought to think about getting off this plan. You don't owe me anything. Oh my god. What a godsend. I mean, not just the financial part but the the the advice, like, right there in that moment. I mean, that that changed everything for you.

42:49Yeah. And it it it gave me, again, a message from the angels, a message from the universe saying, I was good enough to convey the value of my work to a patient who was willing to take money out of their pocket and give it to me.

43:03Yeah. Even to the point where she could have gotten half back and she would have had a legitimate, you know, case to get it back legally. And, so I was you know, and it's always it it showed me I was on the right path. There are people out there that value this, and they are. And they're the ones that are sharing tears with me on this. They're not saying, oh my god. It's so expensive. This is ridiculous. I was just gonna pay for your new car, your kid's college, and something. I mean, they were truly appreciative of of of what I can offer them. You know, one piece. Yeah. You know, at that early stage, you know, you said you were making a lot of night guards, and they they challenge you to do some equilibrations and, like, really practice all of the things that you learned and and got good at.

43:45And it's a perfect example of that. But, you know, getting back to kind of the communication piece, you say in your conclusion lecture that if somebody doesn't understand that they even have a problem, you you really can't sell to them. Right. You know? Right. You can't sell a solution if they don't know they have a problem. What what's the answer to that? Like, how do you overcome that? So, there there's a lot in there. Yeah. You know, it it it's about slowing the process down. And the Penkey talks about the the co discovery process. Yeah. And, you know, every patient that came in, they didn't get scheduled, with hygiene. They got scheduled with me. And and we go through the discovery process, and I had a list of questions that illustrated the the the three, you know, components of the practice.

44:27You know, there were a bunch of questions about health, were a bunch of questions about function, there were a bunch of questions about aesthetics. And through the questioning and the conversations, I was able to educate the patient on how we did things and why feel that my dentistry would be the best, solution for you. You know, people would come in and and say, I just want veneers. I'm like, well, okay. You know, but veneers are not like boob jobs. Okay? Boobs just kinda hang there. Okay? Veneers function. And and We're active. And if we don't address how you use your teeth, we're gonna break off my work like you broke your own teeth off. Yeah, man. They gotta look good, they gotta feel good, and they gotta function well.

45:08They function. And Yeah. But the and the looks come from the function. Form follows function. You know, if we put something that's in the way of what they do with their jaw, it's gonna break. We've proven that when I and I get to show them that through the discovery process. But that's a whole other podcast. I'm happy to to to repeat that. Oh, yeah. Hey. That but it's been Yeah. The focus of a of a mastermind. You know? Right. So so write that one down. Yeah. You know? I mean, it's so it's so important, and I think that it's something that that some dentists sort of overlook. Or, you know, like, you can also get comfortable in your career, and there are a million different ways to practice. You know? I'm a sport.

45:44Whatever whatever you wanna do as long as you put the patient first, as long as you do the right thing for the patient. But, you know, Brett, a lot like you, and your story is a perfect example. I said early on, like, man, I would rather sell used cars than give an insurance company 40% of all of my hard work. And what is that? 7,000 out of 17,000 that you were supposed to give back? I mean, that just shows exactly that. And I I think that that that mentality, that mindset, that identity piece that you just believe. You know this is the best thing for the patient. And when you ask all those right questions and you create a dialogue and a co discovery process, they start to get it. Don't they? Yeah. And and the last question that I ask in the discovery process is, you know, missus Jones, what are your goals for your teeth?

46:34What do you want from, you know, from this? For my teeth. And then no one has ever asked them that. They they stay at the same reaction. And and, you know, and and it's the last question I ask. And, you know, and I and I I share this with, you know, with you here for the podcast listeners. If you don't have this kind of practice, okay, you know, fee for service, slow, you know, seven, eight patients a month, new patients a month, you know, you can ask that question in hygiene. Mhmm. And, you know, you a lot of times the hygiene hygiene appointment, you know, exam is they're already laid back. They've got their glasses on. You walk in. Hey. Blah blah blah. Let me look and poke around, and then I get out of there.

47:10Okay? Slow that down. Okay? Sit the patient up. Look them eye to eye. Say, you know, you've been coming here for years. I've been doing dentistry for you. You seem happy here. And, but I I just never really ask you. What are your goals for your teeth? What do you what do you, you know, is there anything you could do you know, wanna do with your with your teeth that that I can help you with? It's very disarming. You don't say, hey. Do you like your smile? It's time for those veneers. You know? It's like Man. It's it's like, what are your goals for your teeth? And then and then shut up. Let them talk. Right. Exactly. Exactly. Notes. Then you say to him, you know, missus Jones, this is really interesting. I'm so bummed that we haven't had this conversation yet.

47:51I do have another patient to see. Can I reschedule you or we can, you know, schedule some dedicated time to really dig deep into this conversation and see if I can help you with your goals? Yeah. Well, I think it's great. I think a lot of times, with existing patients, it seems hard to to pivot and hard to change that relationship and ask questions that you've never asked before. But, you know, again, in terms of you and your life and and pivots and reinventing yourself, all that good stuff, I I you as you know, I did a lot of research. I did a lot of research because I wanted to get to know you even beyond the conversation. Borderline stalking. Don't have to Right? Seriously. Just wait till you read the blog on Friday, doctor Kessler.

48:31But, you know, you when you turned 50, you, like, said, hey. It it's time for me to plan, like, how the second half of my life is gonna look. And Mhmm. That's, like, a huge thing that not many successful people do. Like, why did you do it and why do you think that other people don't? So the genesis again was seven habits of highly effective people Mhmm. Where it it one of the habits begin with the added mind. It asks us to, if you're at your funeral, what would you want people to say about you? And they're a bit and and the the, you know, the obituaries or whatever. I can't even think of the word right now. What what would you want them to say about you? Write it down, and then go live that life so they just so they say it about you.

49:12Okay? So I so that was, you know, my first vision statement, like I said, was my business plan for the practice Mhmm. Couple years later. But at 50 I turned 50 that year in 2018. And Yeah. I I started asking myself some midlife questions. Yeah. I wasn't having a midlife crisis, but I was midlife questions. I'm halfway there. I wanted to live till I was 100. That was my plan. It still is my plan. Good. And, I'm halfway to a 100. And what do I wanna do with the second half of my life? Where can I make a bigger impact in the second half of my life? And I made a pretty big impact in the first half. And and what do I wanna do professionally for the second half? Mhmm. And so what I came up with that year, it was a pretty big year.

49:52I did I I we my wife and I, we sold our practice that year. Yeah. I was starting to get burned out, and I wanted to, you know, just change, either venues or, my my employment status. I began an employee there. So we sold the practice. It was the first time I ever did the Ironman. Yeah. Okay. And I've been racing triathlon since the early nineties. So since the yeah. So mid twenties. So twenty five years of racing. I finally got into the Ironman. Yeah. That was the year that I decided to run for the board of trustees of the American Dental Association. Mhmm. That ultimately led to me being president. And then, it was the year I celebrated twenty years of sobriety and twenty years of, you know, sitting at that crossroads.

50:34Do I wanna live or do I wanna die? Yeah. And, you know, and I got to reflect back on the twenty years of life that I've squeezed out of every minute of of that twenty years. And I'm like, I'm just getting started and, know, and and so that that's what I I did and, you know, it has been a heck of a year. And I'm 58 now. I'm eight years out of that. And I'm Yeah. I'm writing a new vision right now as we speak because it's time. And but but, you know, in my vision statement at that time, wrote, I wanna maximally give back to the profession that has given me so much. Now I attribute my recovery to the phone call that I made to the Michigan Dental Association well-being program. And that that phone call ultimately was the phone call I attribute to saving my life.

51:17So organized dentistry saved my life. And so here, I wanted to give back maximally to the profession that has given me so much. It gave me a life, life physical life and then a life worth living after it, and I wanted to contribute maximally. And so Huge. That's why I ran for the the trustee position. And then every decision I I I had in front of me or every commitment I had a choice on, am I bringing myself if I take this commitment, am I bringing myself closer to that vision of maximally contributing to the profession or I'm moving further away?

51:46And so that was my lens on on how I would answer those questions or whether I wanted to join into that commitment. And then it came time for me to to actually decide if I wanted to run for, the office of of president. And, you know, and, again, it it fell into that lens, maximally contribute. And I could have said no, but I said yes because I felt I had this opportunity to to and I'll only have this opportunity once in life, and so I went for it. And I, you know, my goal, honestly because a lot of times my ideas so I was fee for service and and, you know, and and the you know, less than 5% of our colleagues are fee for service. Right. And I spent twenty years, twenty some years trying to educate. You know, I taught occlusion at the dental school, morphology and occlusion, talking about this, trying to educate them.

52:31You know, I had mastermind groups as well and and but no one, you know, not a not a significant number would would take a leap from, you know, HMO, DPPO practices to to fee for service because of Yeah. You know, whatever reason. They have their personal reasons. So it wasn't going away, and we weren't getting it any bigger. Okay? But here so I I recognize a lot of times my ideas are ahead of what the profession is ready to understand and and accept. But if I can plant seeds and because I'll have this one year opportunity to go across the country and talk to the leaderships in every corner of the country and plant these seeds, and and that was my goal. Don't get me wrong. I wanted to win, but but, you know, if I can plant seeds, I would be considered a win too.

53:13And I never expected to win, but I and and I'll tell you, I had a a business coach who a longtime business coach of mine. She asked me, you know, well, who do you need to become to be the best in this role? I was like, what the heck does that mean? She's like, well, you better grow if you're gonna be president. You know? You you're you're you're the person you are now, it's good, but you you don't wanna be good. You wanna be, you know, a, you know, a transformational, transformational, you you know, know, president. President. You're right. And I do. And so I didn't understand what she meant. But as I, you know, nine months into the campaign, I look back at my life. I'm like, I'm you know, they it stretched me in ways I never expected it would.

53:51Mhmm. You know, my communication skills, like, you know, went up through the roof. My ability to answer questions But did you give, like, 220 speeches or something during your one year as president? Yeah. Yeah. 220 presentations, two hundred days on the road. Yeah. Those those reps, I mean, you can't help but get get really good at that. Let's mention whatever time you spent the the year leading up to the presidency, like you said, kinda planting seeds all over the country. And I I think that's I think that's a really great way to do that. And I think the time that you spend at dental schools is another great way to do that. Communicating with dentists, the ones who are you know, dental students who are gonna be tomorrow's dentists, getting into their minds, you know, about what's possible.

54:35And Yeah. I I think that so often you come out of school with all this debt and you just like, man, you take the first job you can get and and and you know, look, there's something to be said for getting some experience. But I think if you come out with that mentality that anything's possible and some of those skills that, you know, maybe we don't get in dental school, you know, through interaction with you, through mastermind settings, things like that.

54:57I mean, hey, man. We we can make big change. Big change in the next twenty years. Absolutely. And and and I learned so much as much as I shared. Mhmm. You know, hearing Yeah. You know, what's on their minds, the dental students and the new dentists and the leaders across the country. You know, every corner of the country had, you know there are a lot of similarities with the challenges, but there are lot of, you know, nuances as well. Sure. And so all of this experience helped me be a better leader. Mhmm. But but I I wanna share and close this loop with, about nine months in, I recognized I loved the person I was becoming in in pursuit of this goal. And if I and if I, you know, hedge my bets, so, you know, I do Ironman races and these crazy stupid ultramarathons and marathons and bike races and stuff, and I never expect to win.

55:44It's always me versus me, and I get a medal if I cross the finish line. You know? But here, I'm in this this this campaign where it's you're the winner or you're the first loser. Okay? And and that that's a whole different level of of pressure to succeed. So I started hedging myself and saying, well, I love the person I'm becoming and I recognize that the universe is preparing me for something. If I don't get president, I'm gonna have some kind of impact And and, you know, from this experience I'm gaining, and and and so I was fully ready for that. Mhmm. But then I ended up, you know, winning and, you know, and I like I said, I took advantage. I knew exactly what I wanted to do, and I what I set out to do and I got to do everything.

56:24I was really proud of of of what I got to to experience and accomplish. Well, think the mindset and mentality that you had going into that was was really smart. I I mean, we talked before we got on the air about setting high goals. You know, setting goals so high that, you know, some people may consider them unattainable. And but if you fall short, you're still gonna accomplish a lot. And even if you hadn't won, you had already accomplished a lot in terms of becoming more of the person you wanted to be and in terms of spreading the message, you know, throughout the country and throughout the industry. So that's like a perfect example. Yeah. And and it's it's not about the accomplishment. And I learned that from the IT man because I crossed the finish line.

57:05And, man, it was a thirty some year bucket list goal of mine, okay, to do this. Wow. And and to you know, but but but it wasn't the finish line that was fulfilling. Mhmm. It was who did I become in process of getting to to even start life? You always say the journey. Yeah. The journey is more important than the destination. Mhmm. And you you've certainly experienced that in a lot of ways. And I know, as far as your Kona story, I know that your mom was diagnosed with leukemia back in 2009 and you ended up racing for the team that I I think developed the drug that kept your mom alive.

57:41Yeah. So let me backtrack on that. Yeah. So in my my general practice residency, my second year of that was a cancer fellowship. And it seemed like a lot of my patients were not only head and neck cancer, but blood cancer patients. So leukemia lymphoma, multiple myeloma and and, you know, they would get bone marrow transplants. And so and and what to to before the bone marrow transplant is you you would wipe out their entire immune system because their white blood cells are going crazy. That's what leukemia is. That's what lymphoma is. So they'd wipe out their immune system and inject and transplant another immune system in there. That's what the transplant is. And, when they are in that nadir where they're wiped out the immune system, if there's any infection going on in their mouth, they'll have zero ability to to fight it.

58:26Right. And so we would, you know, ensure that these patients were free of active infection before their their their bone marrow transplant. And so I got to know and see how devastating these blood cancers were, and there weren't a lot of successful treatments at the time. Okay? And so but then I learned a ton about, you know, in medicine again, how oral health affects overall health. And but I I moved to to Michigan. I was still involved with a couple different hospitals. I taught at the general practice residency at University of Michigan. I was always on and I was also on staff at Henry Ford Hospital and I would in the dental department and I would treat, you know, these precancer patients, you know, and make sure they were, you know, safe to to undergo the bone marrow transplant.

59:08But when I moved to Colorado, I wasn't involved in any hospitals anymore and in hospital dentistry. And I got a postcard in the mail from the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society team in training. And I looked at it as, hey. There's a a group of people that I can train with and get some coaching, and I could raise money for these, you know, this horrible disease that I got to, you know, treat a lot of these patients, you know, back, in my in my training.

59:34And and I'm not giving now, so I feel like I'm getting all these wins from it. And, so I I I signed up for the, LA triathlon with team in training. I raised about $10,000 through that, and it was a team in training event. So there were hundreds of I call them purple people. They all wore purple jerseys during the during the race, me included. And they you know, we raised about, I don't know, 4 or $5,000,000 collectively in that race. That money went to a researcher in Seattle, and that researcher developed a drug called GLEEVAC. And GLEVAC is a a drug that treats chronic myelogenous leukemia. And CML was a death sentence before this drug. This drug made it a chronic manageable disease like diabetes. Yeah.

1:00:22You take your insulin, you can live. You take this Gleevec and you can live. No cancer in my family whatsoever, you know, and and whatever. Felt really good about that. And I became a coach for the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society, and I was a coach for, I don't know, ten years. And hundreds of of people I coached through triathlons and marathons and, you know, millions of dollars was raised beneath me in my line. And, you know, and and then I was having fun, you know, as I'm racing, I'm training. I've got this group of people we're giving to the world. It's all awesome. My mom was diagnosed with chronic myelogenous leukemia. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. You couldn't write that. I mean, that's a trip to the woman's sleep.

1:01:00Right? Yeah. Gleevec, you know, was one of the drugs that she got to take. And, you know, so now I now saw the value of fundraising that funds research that, you know, gets to clinic as and gets to our patients as quickly as possible that literally saves lives. You know, she ended up dying in 2017, you know, because her her body just gave out. She had so many other health problems that she could not she couldn't take another round of chemo. Mhmm. And her body just gave out. And so she when she passed it, you know, my I was involved still with the leukemia side. I wasn't coaching anymore for many years, but they they were supporting me throughout, especially when after the diagnosis. And, you know, and and they asked me, do I wanna do a fundraiser in her honor?

1:01:44And I talked to my mom about it, and she's like, don't want I don't want any attention. She said, no. Not while I'm alive. Do whatever you want after I'm dead. But I mean, she she really told me that. And when she and so I didn't do it while she's alive because she didn't want the attention. But when she passed, did I I I they they called me and asked what I wanted to do, and I said, is that Kona thing available? And Kona is the Ironman World Championships, and and, they they checked, and I went through an interview process. And I and I was one of the ones selected, and I got to go and race my dream race. And and I raised about $70,000 for that race, and and I was disappointed because my goal was a 100.

1:02:26Mhmm. And and I didn't get to a 100. But I'll tell you my kids, in honor of their grandma, my mom, they've done student of the year fundraising and they've raised well over a 100, you know, and, you know, the family has raised a ton for leukemia over the years.

1:02:41Leukemia is what I'm gonna say. And so I know I got to do it and it was amazing. Yeah. Home is such a special place. My wife and I went for the first time I think in 2008. We were, celebrating our ten year anniversary and Uh-huh. A dentist who I used to teach with, I was, taught with David Hornbrook and, one of our other instructors, She'd always talk about her husband who was doing the Ironman every year. He always qualified for Kona and all that sort of thing. Our anniversary coincided with that year's world championship. Wow. And it was kinda cool, Brett, because we got to, I just met John the night before and, that I think 4AM, you know, we took him to to the race course. Nice. And my wife and I were out there for probably, I don't know, fourteen, sixteen hours that day and just blown away because we're both athletes.

1:03:27You know? I was an all American runner in high school and ran division one and stuff. And by the end of that day, my wife became convinced, oh my god. Like, I need to do this. And and sure enough, you know, we both got into Ironman training, like, the next year, and she qualified and raced in 2013. Amazing. That leads me to my next question because I know exactly where this happened because in 2013, you know, we got in the water. We swam we swam the Ironman course there in Kona. And so I I have goosebumps right now just thinking about it and and how special it is. You told me a story last week about how you dove down to the bottom of the water and saw a sea turtle. It's like, you you screamed to I think it was Madame Pele or something like that.

1:04:11And, you know, all of sudden, a sea turtle, like, appeared. You know, one of those angel moments. Tell me about that. Like, what what did that mean to you? So this is I've done I've been racing triathlon since '93. Okay? This is 2018, twenty five years later. My first Ironman. I've never done I've done a couple half Ironmans, but I hadn't raced a triathlon in ten years. I was just doing ultramarathons. Oh, wow. Okay? And, yeah. Live in Colorado, and I love the trails. I love getting dirty and getting hot in my own way, not subsea. Yeah. Right. Right. And you know, got into Ironman and I, you know, had to relearn everything. And so I hired a coach and the guy I used to coach with for team and training, and he, you know you know, kinda shepherd me through things.

1:04:56And and I called everybody I knew who had done Kona and asked them their experience, asked them their advice. Yeah. And, one of my friends, she, had done it several times, and she said, you know, when you get there, there's a pier where the the swim start is. On one side of the pier is a swim start. The other part is where you can kinda warm up, and it's a lagoon. And she's like, go in the lagoon, swim down to the bottom, and lay out a primal scream as loud as you can from every you know, from your gut. And and this is to to to let madam Pele know that you're here on the island, and then you're to ask her for permission to be on the island and for safety for you and the the the rest of the racers that day.

1:05:41And so I I went down and I mean, I'm freaking nervous, dude. Okay? It's five in the morning, six in the morning. It's gonna be a long freaking day, and it you know, so I I do it because and I'm not superstitious at all, but, you know, this is the world championships. The whole world is watching me in my mind, and they gave me all this money. And, you know, and social media is a thing now, and and, you know, everybody's me, tracking me, and, you know, and I'm I'm not gonna take anything for granted. So I'm gonna do the superstitious thing. So I go down there and I lay out this primal scream. I come up and it felt so good. And, you know, be a part of my addicted mind is if it feels good, do just do more of it.

1:06:17Okay? So so I tophed down again to the bottom and I let out this primal scream. And I look up and honestly, it seemed like time stopped. I looked up to my right. There's this giant sea turtle. This is what big is my wingspan, you know, and I swear it's flying down there. You know? And it's it's it's awkward on land, but it's just it's it's in its element. It's just flying around. Time stopped, and I swear to you, we we locked eyes. He gave me a nod. I gave it a nod, and then he nodded and swam away. And it it it seemed like an eternity. It was a matter of seconds, obviously, you know, because you're underwater. So I climbed up to the top and I just laid on my back. And I I had this this feeling that overwhelmed me that, you know, that everything is gonna be great today.

1:07:05You're gonna have a day of that you're you'll remember you worked hard for this, and it's gonna be amazing. And and I later found out that the Honu and Hawaiian culture, you know, it stands for a lot of things, but, wisdom, safety, guidance are are are and longevity.

1:07:25Okay? And, you know, back in the day, they, the Polynesian Islands, you know, they would canoe from island to island. This Nahonu would would guide them. Right. Right. They lived to, like, a 150, 200 years old and, you know, and they've seen everything, so they have the wisdom and you know? But I just felt this feeling in my soul that, you know, my mom was with was with me. Madame Pele gave me her her grace to to have, have a good day and be on the island and be safe. And, you know, and I've I've felt connected to that island, every day since 2018, October 5 10/13/2018. And it was amazing. It was a great day. You know, endurance endurance sports are, are such a great way to learn life lessons. I mean, I learned life lessons from, you know, running a 100 miles a week when I was a teenager.

1:08:13You know, life lessons, leadership, that sort of thing. So for you, like, over the course of your career as an endurance athlete, like, what what did you learn about leadership that you wouldn't learn probably in any other way? So many things. There are so many metaphors there that helped me in in in every aspect of of my leadership journey. The, what comes to mind is, first of all, is I had to be teachable. And, I didn't have to know everything. And as a leader, you don't have to be the one with all the answers. Yes. If you have the answers, that's great. But you have to know how to ask the right questions. And so as I mentioned, you know, I I hired my my old friend, and coach Charlie, who is a world class, iron man, triathlete to guide me.

1:08:58And, you know, even though I've been doing triathlons for twenty five years, this is not the normal one. I had to New experience, man. Right. So I had to ask ask him how and I had to ask for help. And when you're a leader, you know, if you're leading you wanna go go far, go alone. You know? Go fast, go alone. And and I I didn't wanna go alone. This was a group group effort, and so he really, you know, guided me. And I learned that, you know, in the the year plus that I was training that not every day was a good day. And I made big mistakes, in my training, and I made big mistakes in practice races. Nutrition. And and, yeah, nutrition and, you know, and packed my bag right, or I forgot my bike shoes or, you know, and or, you know, and and so things like that, you know, can ruin your day, and you'll you get to put that in your in your toolbox and not make that mistake again.

1:09:45And and but when you make those mistakes that that it's not the end. Okay? It it teaches you how can you be creative creative in this situation. And, you know, I learned especially on that day where I was really starting to to melt down at mile 80 on the bike ride. You know? It's it's like a 100 degrees and, you know, not a single cloud in the sky. Nowhere to to to Windy on that that Yeah. Highway. Both ways. Both ways. Right? Yeah. You know? And and but, you know, I had to really think about, you know, how am I gonna get through this? You know? And, I got to go to the Ironman World Championships the following year, and I was done after the bike ride. My brain said, forget it. You've done this already. You don't need this in your in your in your cap.

1:10:29And so I went to the changing tent, and I just kinda rested for a while, closed my eyes. And the, the volunteer, the changing tents started giving me, you know, Gatorade and water and food and tied my shoes for me, and they're massaging my legs and my back. And he's like, Brett, get the hell out of here. Go go run. And, like, there's no way I can run a marathon right now. There's no way. And the conditions were the worst in 2019. And he's like, just do this. Get out there. Get moving. You know, walk, run, get to that first aid station. And at that first aid station, you're gonna have a you know, the there people are there to give you Gatorade and water and food again. And, you know, and then, you know, go to the next aid station a mile later, and you get to repeat that.

1:11:10I there was no way I can run 26 miles, but I can run a mile. Yeah. And and that's what I did. I ran a mile 26 times. And, you know, I was running ten minute miles, and I can run for ten minutes. That's all I have to do is run for ten minutes. Then I can walk through the aid station, recharge myself, run for ten minutes, walk for, two minutes, and and that's what I did. And, and and so learning about leadership, you know, especially when I was president, we had issues that are not gonna be solved easily. There's no clear path to this. But Mhmm. I would ask myself, what can I do right now to make things better? What how can I run the mile that I'm in, basically? Yeah. Okay. And and, you know, and and and and if I make these little changes to start to turn the trajectory of the problems I'm facing as a leader, as a person, as, you know, as a dentist, as an owner, because not not everything always goes right.

1:12:02But but, you know, a series of small steps towards a desired goal, momentum starts to build and, you know, and you get to that finish line. I love And but you gotta break it down to one mile at a time. Race the mile you're in. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Forget about that that year you spent as president. I mean, I know I think your hotel room's, like, two hundred and twenty five nights or something like that. I think when you close the door, you know, at the end of a long day and you're in the hotel room, like, what are the responsibility of being kind of the most informed dentist on the planet? What did that feel like when you were alone? Well, first of all, I had a very strong active gratitude practice. And and my, my my recovery mentors taught me that when I get into a a bad funk, you know, write something every day that you're grateful for.

1:12:51And and you can't repeat yourself. You know, every day you can't say, oh, I'm really grateful for my health, my family, my job. Health, family. You know, it's gotta get down to you can't repeat anything. And so it it gets granular to the point where I'm grateful for the sharpness of this pen that has ink in it. Okay? And and and it taught me to be grateful for things in the moment. Mhmm. Okay? It is a brain exercise that trained my brain to find gratitude in everything. And so that that's where I would start at the end of my day and I I do it a pretty a pretty daily debrief at the end of the day and a daily Yeah. Set goal setting meditation in the morning and mindfulness practice. You know, and I I I kept thinking, you know, of my origin, you know, my, you know, my life or death moment in October 1998 to today.

1:13:36And, you know, I'm grateful for this opportunity to to be able to drive this profession forward one little step at a time. And not every day was good, you know, but but I found good in every day. I love it. I love it. You know, another just to to play off of that, I remember you told me the story about being in the ADA archives and, you know, reading original texts from, like, Pierre Fauchard and GB Black. And the realization, like, it hits you like a ton of bricks. I think, holy cow. I'm in the same lineage as these guys hell who held the same office more than a hundred years ago. And you said it was like an oh shit moment. You're talking through that. What did that what did that feel like? I had lots of oh shit moments.

1:14:18I had an oh shit moment when I got into the Ironman. I had an oh shit moment when I when I won the won the election, and I was having this oh shit moment when I, did this. So we were unpacking some of the archives at the new ADA headquarters and Mhmm. You know, and the the librarian goes, look at this, doctor Kessler. And she had me Pierre Fauchad's original book from the seventeen hundreds. And it's all in French, so I didn't understand it. But I was like, this was like original printing. And I'm like, should I be wearing gloves for this? No. No. No. No. I'm like, no. I already so I I put it down because I didn't wanna I didn't want the oils for my skin to be the one that drilled drilled a hole in this for, you know, it melted a hole in it a thousand years from now.

1:14:58But, but it was really kinda cool holding that. And then she handed me, book by, of GV Black. So when GV Black was the dean at Northwestern Dental School in Chicago. For whatever reason, there was a stenographer there annotating every single word he said. And so this book was a collection of his lectures to the dental students at the time. And it it started out with saying, gentlemen, welcome to the profession of dentistry. Didn't say ladies and gentlemen. There were no women at the time. Right. Right. Today, we're going to talk about blah blah blah blah blah, and it was all annotated. And as as I could just visualize being in that audience listening to him. You know, you don't realize you're in the presence of greatness in the while you're you know, a lot of times when you're in it.

1:15:43Okay? And, you know, this guy is one of the the greats in dentistry. And then right after that, I didn't know this, but he was the president of the American Dental Association in 1900. And the oh shit moment was I'm the president of the American Dental Association hundred and twenty five years later. Wild. And I'm on that lineage. And, again, the responsibility that I have in this role to drive the profession forward, to make it the best it can possibly be, not only for us in the present, but for the next hundred and twenty five years was it it weighed really heavy on me.

1:16:16And and I it was a a duty of mine to to ensure that I leave it better than when I got it. And and I felt that that obligation and and, you know, and I know I got to lead through some some really interesting times and, you know, I was, you know, I I I I ran the campaign on a change maker's platform.

1:16:37Mhmm. Okay? Because the way we were going, we were we were not going well. Yeah. K? Membership was going down, and, you know, we're losing relevance with especially the younger dentists. That's why I wanted to go to so many dental schools. And I spent, you know, ten years leading up to that, you know, present my wellness presentation to dental students across the country. For ten years, I've been doing that. That's not something new. But but as president, I've got this platform to really, you know, encourage people to recognize that we are human, and you will suffer human conditions like mental illness and and physical challenges and things like that. And, you know, and just honor your humanness. And and then, you know, you go through these challenges.

1:17:16It's not life threatening or life ending. It's a chapter that needs to be you know, these end and a new chapter can start. And you could still do great things after Mhmm. You know, tragedies like I had to go through when I was at rock bottom. You know, you you were, you were presidency in a really difficult time and moment. I mean, it was probably the most politically charged time, like, in dentistry's history. You know, when when fluorinated water is being attacked and, you know, you had to go and and speak with White House officials and just do all the things that you did during that year. You know, walk me through that. Like, what was that experience like? And and looking ahead, you know, I mean, do you think these attacks are gonna continue?

1:17:54You know? It's it's really frightening. So I I got I took over as president the October 2024. '24. Yeah. And a week later was the presidential election, first week of November. Mhmm. And, our, advocacy team was working with both the Biden campaign and the Trump campaign. And so we were, you know, informing and and guiding them on health care policy, especially around dentistry for either. So, you know, we we are not a political organization. Our our party is the tooth party. And, you know, issue oral health issues are democratic just as much as they are republican. And so we had, we had, you know, strategies in place for whoever won. Mhmm. And when the Trump administration won, you know, everyone was a little scared because of the the RFK threats.

1:18:44Okay? That he was gonna, you know he threatened that, you know, Trump was gonna outlaw fluoride is the day he was gonna be, you know, inaugurated. And so we we were always worried about that. But then I I thought about it, you know, that we were even in the the Biden administration, they weren't very easy to work with either from an oral health perspective. Yeah. Okay? And so so we didn't get much done in under that. We got we got some things done, absolutely, and we're grateful for everything that we did get done with them. But, with the Trump administration, we had a plan. And so, for the first time that I can ever remember is we decided to have a proactive legislative advocacy strategy. And so the day before the Trump's inauguration, we took out a full page ad on the back page of the front section in the Washington Post.

1:19:34And I wrote an, an editorial that basically said, we are the American Dental Association. This is who we are. This is what we stand for, and this is what we can do to help make America healthy from an oral health perspective. Full page ad, biggest media day or second beat biggest media day, in the world, the whole world coming into Washington DC for the inauguration. Okay? So so we got a lot of Yeah. Lot of views from that. I followed it up with a personal letter to president Trump and every single member of congress that was way more detailed than the, editorial that we wrote. So they all knew who we were and what we stood for. Yeah. And and and we had to decide who you know, how what our strategy was, how we're gonna work with you, and what we could do to help you with your goals.

1:20:19Yeah. Because every administration comes in with certain goals and, you know, some are on the table, some are not on the table. We're not gonna fight for those that are not on the table. We're gonna after what we can actually do and still move our profession forward. And so when when RFK was firmed as the HHS secretary, you know, he he challenged fluoride in big ways and he challenged science in big ways.

1:20:42And science and evidence base are two of the ADA's core values. My job as president is to align all of our actions along the lines of our core values, mission, and vision. And so when when our our our core values are being challenged, I have to show up. And, and I made, statements in in every major periodical across the world. Okay? I think my statements around fluoride, ADA, and Brett Kessler was, like, 54,000,000,000 views worldwide. Okay? Wonderful. So I was everywhere speaking up in favor of true science. And, you know, and so we fought for it. And, you know, among other things, they dismantled the oral health division of the CDC. The FDA decided, to challenge, fluoride supplements. So when Utah became the first state in the country to outlaw fluoride, it was under the guise of we need to give our citizens the choice to you know, if they wanna medicate themselves.

1:21:35Then the FDA is taking away that choice. And so I, you know, I had to stand up for it. And so I I testified, you know, before the FDA, the EPA, Congress many times. We went to the White House and met with doctor Heidi Overton, and she was the, the deputy director of domestic policy and, the principal, author of the MAHA report. And I feel we did a really good job, you know, minimizing the the fluoride conversation in the MAHA report. And, you know, and so so, you know, we were out there doing it. And so never before in the history of dentistry has the the the profession been lifted to the conversation at the level of the president of The United States. Mhmm. Okay? This isn't the way we wanted to, but, hey, we're a national news item now.

1:22:26Okay? And so, you know, the Trump administration, we don't view things about fluoride the same, but we do view things like, you know, they wanna reduce sugar intake. We wanna reduce the, ingestion of ultra processed foods. And when we talked to doctor Heidi Overton, I'm like, doctor Overton, we we talk about this every day with our patients. He's like, wow. I never thought of that. You know? Yeah. Sugar causes cavities. We talk about diet, you know, and how important it is for for oral health and overall health. And we see the ramifications of ultra processed foods and and high sugar intake with diabetes, and we can treat stuff, you know, like periodontal disease that'll help our patients be healthier with their diabetes management and Alzheimer's and colorectal cancer and preterm low birth weight babies and cardiovascular disease.

1:23:14All these things, it's like, wow. That's great. And so we're working with them on that. I don't know what we're doing now. I'm not, get in trouble for this because people think I speak for the ADA. I don't speak for the ADA anymore, but that's what we were working on, and I'm pretty sure we're still working on that. Yeah. Doctor Rosado, current president, and I penned an editorial in JADA, specifically how we wanna work with this administration. Mhmm. And we we pointed all these things out. And and, you know, yes, you know, we're not in favor of some things, but we are in favor of other things. And Sure. You know, we learned and this is a principle that I learned in in in recovery in my recovery program is, you know, principles over personalities.

1:23:51You know, attack the principal, not the person. Yeah. And, you know, and and so RFK, you know, has some some wild ideas about fluoride. He's got some really good ideas about other things that we wanna work with them and things that we're aligned with. And and if we attack the person, we never get that opportunity and everybody loses. Look. And I think that's the problem my boys had with extremism. You know, when when you have very extreme views, sometimes it makes you unapproachable. It makes it difficult to find common ground. And, so I really respect anybody who kind of extends an olive branch and leads with, hey, I really agree with this and can we come to some sort of compromise on that? And I think that's the only way that you can affect change.

1:24:33And, you know, the position that you're in, I mean, it was like the the perfect time for you to be there and and do exactly that in a proactive manner like you did. Yeah. And, you know, it could have been a lot worse. You know, there were 21 states that introduced bills to ban fluoride. We only lost in two of them. We won every single one other. So we did a really good job. Yeah. And, and and so now when those states that have outlawed fluoride or, you know, different communities that have outlawed fluoride or removed it from the water, we know there's gonna be a 25% increase in caries and and kids amongst those.

1:25:10Okay? And and when this administration is gone is when we're gonna see it. Okay? Yeah. Yeah. But but but there because we have raised our, you know, status to the level of the president, the conversation level of president, people know dentistry can help improve health, and we are gonna be the ones that are gonna lead it.

1:25:28Well, know, it's a perfect time. It's a perfect time because there is such a push towards that, you know, the, oral body connection. You know? We've known forever. But for whatever reason, it's just never been fully integrated. It's just been kind of a sideshow. You know, bringing to the forefront on an actual scene, I think, really important because beyond just educating our profession, educating the the general public, you know, making sure they understand how that impacts everything else in positive ways and in negative ways.

1:25:57Yeah. And I I think we're, you know, we're poised to do that. There's a movement going forward. I just published an article in, the Metro Denver Dental Society's articulator journal on, what really is gonna have to take to to become truly integrated with, you know, the mouth and the body. And I really believe it's a separation of the benefits that that is driving this. And, you know, we've had a benefit system that, you know, maybe 90% of our colleagues take it now. We you know, coming back full circle at the beginning of this conversation. You know, 90% of us take some kind of dental benefit. It worked for us for a long time. We did pretty well with it. None of us liked it though, but we did pretty well.

1:26:38And because they have not raised their reimbursement rates, they've not raised their cap, and it's not really an essential benefit. It's more of a coupon. Right. It doesn't reflect essentialism and and, you know, and really improving health. It it's check boxes, really. It's not working for us anymore, and I really believe the the dentists are feeling the squeeze. I think it's reflected as a cause of the workforce issues because we can't offer our team members the career opportunities that we were able to offer them even ten years ago because we can't afford to.

1:27:10Okay? We can't give them the, you know, the every year they want raises because cost of living goes up. Yeah. But the benefits are either staying the same or going down. That doesn't work. It doesn't. That doesn't work. We can go faster, make less money faster. That doesn't work either. And somewhere along the line, you know, we we decided it was acceptable to to to take less money for our services when we're treating poor people. And I'm gonna get angry here because it's bullshit. Okay? That they deserve the same quality of care that, people that have means. Okay? And why do we accept this? It's just not it's not right. And, you know, especially in in lower incomes, there's social determinants of health that create all sorts of challenges with them.

1:27:51They have higher caries rates. They have worse health problems than, than than higher income individuals. They need more care. And, you know, and and we know oral health is essential to overall health. But in this country, is health care a right or is it a privilege? Mhmm. And let's talk about that for a second. Okay? And and and if I have degenerative joint disease in my hip, I can get a titanium post placed in my hip. No matter if I have Medicaid, which is benefit system for low income, Medicare, benefit system for old people, private insurance, I can get medicine's finest. If I'm missing a tooth, I can't get a titanium post placed there. Why is and this isn't life threatening. Mhmm. This is, you know, pain when I walk.

1:28:37Okay? If we were to translate the dental benefit model to medicine, instead of giving them a titanium joint replacement, we'd give them crutches. Mhmm. That's what a flipper is. It's a crutch. Right. Okay? If I'm missing a tooth, you're missing number eight, we'll give you a flipper. That's what insurance will cover. Okay? It does not reflect essentialism. And, you know, and then, you know, this twist that I I just had this this this realization that the whole joint replacement industry was spurred by research by a man named Branamark.

1:29:09I put that in. How did I hear that in? This researcher, Branamark, was studying circulation in bones femur bones of rabbits. And so he had these titanium microscopes that he would place in the femur bones so he can look at the microcirculation in the bone. When they sacrificed the rabbits and tried to remove the microscopes, they realized that the titanium microscopes were stuck because the bone grew around them. Osteo integrated was formed. Okay? That turned into dental implants, which then turned into this whole joint replacement market that that accounts for about 25 to $30,000,000,000 a year in spending. Okay? Medicine offers their finest care. And this isn't life threatening medicine. This is quality of life medicine.

1:29:53Dentistry is, you know, is is, you know, it's important. Why is why is walking any more or less important than removal of infection, the ability to chew, and the ability to to to face the world with dignity with this full smile? I'm not saying everyone should get, you know, 20 veneers to, you know, have a full smile, but they should have they shouldn't be missing a front tooth. Agree. Okay? It's time for us to stake our claim as essential part of health care that we are, and the benefit systems have to reflect that, and they don't right now. So, Brett, tell me a little bit about your writing. You know, you've alluded to that a couple of times. You know, you're a journaler and you've done all that sort of thing.

1:30:33And I I know, you're you're in the middle of, like, writing writing your memoirs now. Is that is that right? Tell tell me about that. I It's a project. A friend of mine, doctor Mark Cogut and I were starting a, we've started a, a leadership development coaching and consulting business called Dynasty Reimagined. Mhmm. And having a lot of fun, and I've got a couple clients and I'm coaching them, you know, leadership acumens and helping people find their purpose per se. Mhmm. And so so part of that is, you know, articulating out our our our strategies. And so I've been writing about, you know, leadership and things like that. And and and it's I started a book there. And the feedback I got from some of my mentors were like, well, these are great.

1:31:12It's good information. But where's the Brett stories? Why isn't Brett stories in there? And so I started putting Brett stories in there. And then I was like, wow. I got some really cool stories. And and I've got it all documented over the years through my blog, through social media, through my writing, my articles that I published, and and and so I I'm just taking them and putting them together and, you know, I've got about 30 some chapters written so far.

1:31:40I'm just having a blast and because last year and last couple years as an officer was so intense, you know, the days were long, eighteen hour days on the regular. Like I like you said before, I was on the road, like, two hundred and twenty five days last year. I mean, every day was was action, and I didn't get to process it. And I didn't get to really, you know, in the moment to the level that I I I I would have liked to because I just didn't have the time. I had to show up every day, sometimes at different rooms, many different places, many different audiences. And and so I'm I'm getting to process it and, again, recognize the gift of of the the role that I I got to play in the last couple years and the gifts that I've been given over the years Mhmm.

1:32:22You know, growing up and my recovery moments and and and how I've woven my recovery principles into becoming the person I've always wanted to become. I love it. Well, you know, I I can't wait to read the book because having having written about you this week, you know, it's a lot my blogs are usually about 1,500 to 2,000 words. I believe it was 3,700 words because I couldn't cut anything out. Like, I there's just so many stories and so much stuff. I I couldn't I I I can't wait for people to read it. But, you know Yeah. Thank you. You've to the presidency as like a catapult, you know, launching you into this next phase of your life. And we both know that a lot of ADA presidents, they kinda go through it.

1:33:02It's a pinnacle, and they kinda ride off into the sunset and, you know, feel, like, really good about, you know, that being sort of the end of their career. So tell me what this, this catapult is launching you toward. What's what's next? So, you know, all this writing that I've been doing, I'm sharing it on, on my platforms and, you know, and it's it's stirring up conversations, you know. Some are are controversial, some are well accepted, but whatever. I think it's stuff that needs to be said. And and I think that when we stir up things, progress happens. And so, you know, first, you know, first off is, you know, this my my consulting business is is really fun because I get to work with people and groups and and watch them grow.

1:33:44And I get to share my experience and and and hopefully impart on them that anything is possible. And, you know, and some of the people that I've worked with have some major some major life changes and life improvements as a result of, you know, some of the guidance. So it's really, for for me, very fulfilling with the impact. I'm also on advisory boards for some startup companies Mhmm. That I feel will change the course of our profession in big ways. New new materials, new technologies, new tech new techniques, new paradigms that will, you know, improve. And whenever I'm I'm I'm looking at new technologies and stuff and, you know, I look at, you know, efficiency and efficacy. Better care for cheaper.

1:34:31Yep. And and and so these these groups that I'm with are gonna really expand upon that in big ways. I can't wait to compare notes on that because I'm on several advisory boards now too, you know, for new technology companies and whatnot. It's it is pretty exciting. You know, I look at it and and in some ways, man, I missed out on, like, all this really cool stuff. You know? Right. It's a practicing dentist, but but it's cool. You know, at this stage of the game, it it's awesome for both of us to be able to share our experience and our knowledge and and Yeah. You know, maybe shape help shape some of these technologies, some of these products, you know, based upon those experiences. But Yeah. Yep. And and and in a few weeks, actually, let me just close this up.

1:35:08I'm I'm going to, Washington DC to, be part of a think tank on medical dental integration, exactly what I just shared before. Wow. You know, with some major levers in the profession. Yeah. And, you know, and to see how we can really push this forward. And, you know, and and, you know, there there is a lot of us out there, and it's not just dentists. There's medicine involved. Mhmm. The American Medical Association will be there and and, you know, and then so everybody's looking, you know, because oral health leads to better systemic health. Yeah. And every health care provider, health care professional wants our patients to be healthier. Why? It's time for us to remove these barriers and help start working together and reconnect the disparate health systems that we are in right now.

1:35:55Yeah. So I'm really excited about those kind of conversations. It. Going back to those dental students again though, I know you've got a virtual mastermind with a bunch of dental students in it. What kind of questions do they ask you that they they won't ask their faculty? What's it really like out there? Yeah. Am I gonna make it? It's really whatever question they're asking, they're really asking. Am I gonna make it? Did I make a good choice? Dude, you know, how do you find a job? How do you find a mentor? And, you know, and I I really can't emphasize enough to to, you know, let them know that they are barely competent when they get out. Mhmm. But that's okay. Yeah. We all were. Yeah. Okay? And, and then you will be fine.

1:36:35And I and I really you know, they they wanna know, you know, should I take this job? Should I take that job? Should I work for DSO? Should I not? Should I you know, how do I, you know, how do I even get a job? And and, you know, and what classes should I take when I get out and things like that. And so I always turn it back on them, and I'm gonna ask them, you know, I don't know if you should take this job or not. I don't know if you should, you know you know, tell me about your goals. Okay? Ask you ask them a goal. Five years from now, you're practicing as a dentist. Tell me what that looks like to you. And, you know, and if your life were as good as it can be five years from now, tell me what that looks like for you.

1:37:09Now you've got that visual out there, does this job move you closer to that? You're not gonna find the perfect job, and your your first job isn't gonna be your last job. So don't get hung up on that. Get out there and get that drill spinning and get your experience. The only way to get better is through experiencing. The only way to get experience is by experiencing things. You know You can't read this in a book. You can't see it on social media. You gotta get out there and do it. Sometimes clarity comes more from asking the right questions than providing the right answers. And you just stated that perfectly. It's like, what do you want it to look like? You know? How do you feel about this? And and, you know, forcing them to think is something that, like you said, it gives them a picture and it gives them something to kind of, you know, go after or a path to to follow, I guess.

1:37:53Yeah. It's their vision. Yeah. Their vision. Their vision. You know? It teaches them to create the their life with intention. And that's where I think my biggest success has been is the intentionality that I have every day. And it starts with me, and I I share this with the students too. It's like, I wake up and I I pray honestly that that God gets in my head before Brett gets in his head this day. Okay? That's ego versus my spirit. You know, I wanna show up to my best self. And then I, you know, I do a meditation. I do some journaling. I look at my day, and and I see what's on my calendar. And and I and I ask myself, you know, with all my appointments that I have on on the calendar, it's like, can I show up as my best self in each of these roles that I'll be playing today?

1:38:32And, you know, in in the best pursuit of of everybody gaining, you know, from the time that we spent together. And and and so that that turns into, you know, I I do and I debrief it at night, and I I say how it goes, and and then I move on. I start over day by day. Well, you help, you know, you help a lot of dentists, and you've really served the industry and the profession and I know you'll continue to do so, but who else? Brett Kessler. You know, I described the Cliff Lidd faculty and Brady story and I've got lots of people out there like that. Yeah. I've got a Great. I've got a tribe of people that I can, you know, when I need help, I put out the bat signal and they all show up and, and just like I am for them.

1:39:14And, you know, and I've created that. You know, many of them are recovery friends. Many of them are dental colleagues. My family is really they don't they they they know me. I've got friends that know me enough to know when I'm bullshitting myself Yeah. As opposed to them. Yeah. And and and and as I am for them, I'm courageous enough to tell them when I think they're off the path they are for me when I am, on the path too. And I and I have to be so there's a growth mindset and a fixed mindset. And, when you're in a fixed mindset, that's that's, you know, not a healthy place to be on a regular basis, you know, because you're not open to possibilities. And so I try and really stay in that growth mindset that, you know, I I yes.

1:39:54I have a plan of things that I wanna accomplish on any given day or month or year. You But, you know, there there's you know, have to be able to to pivot in the journey on on a moment's notice and not be so attached to some things. And I find when I get when I get sideways on things, it's because of my attachment is is, you know, my my talents are on the meat and they're not ready to let go of the meat. And sometimes that meat is spoiled and I need to let go of It's great to it's great to, you know, be focused and always be growth oriented and everything. But I think you mentioned it in the start of that answer. It's just accountability is a big part of it too. You know? Accountability to ourselves is one thing, but outside of ourselves, you know, the people who know us best.

1:40:34You know, when they can when they can hold our feet to the fire a little bit, you know, and and see through some of the bullshit because we all have it, you know. Right. No matter how how much we try to always be our best version of ourselves, sometimes we do delude ourselves. Yeah. And and I'll be honest, I, you know, I went to rehab and, you know, in part of my contract with the licensing board here in Colorado is I had a therapist and addictionologist, addiction medicine doc, whatever, and a practice monitor and then all these people looking over my shoulders to make sure I'm practicing safe.

1:41:06And but in the twenty seven plus years that I've been sober, there'd be times where I I sought counseling. You know? I had a therapist. Yeah. And and when times got tough. And even as president, I was you know, I had a therapist. And I had an and I've had coaches along the way. I've invested in coaches to help with accountability and help me, see things that I couldn't see. And even as president, you know, I had unattached advisers and coaches that helped me, you know, process things, so I could be the best I can possibly be all behind the scenes. And I'm and I invested in that because I feel I'm worth it and I wanted to. So a quick story. When I wrote my business plan for my my my practice, my coach, you know, that helped me with this, before we had a single patient, he's like, Brad, you need to block out six weeks of vacation.

1:41:55I'm like, vacation? Are kidding? About? I need get a refill. No. I ain't I gotta work. He's like, no. You need to. You're gonna need it. And I'm like, no. I'm not gonna. He's like, well, if you don't do it, I'm not gonna work with you. Wow. I'm like, alright. Wow. Wow. I love it. And it made me think. I'm like, this guy is pretty serious. I'm paying him money for advice, and then he gives me advice, and I don't take it. That's what we do. It's just stupid. Yeah. Okay? And and so I I booked out vacation. And, you know, it was every, you know, six times a year. So every two months or so, I would take a vacation for a week. Mhmm. And first time, I mean, cash flow is everything. And I didn't have my wife is an orthodontist, and I'm a dentist.

1:42:31We are the cash flow of the practice. Okay? If we shut the practice down, we had no cash flow, and we have we still have to pay, you know, for the the salaries and stuff like that. And and so it was very scary, but I'll tell you, we came back because because you're I'm in it all day every day. And even when I'm home, that's all I was thinking about was growing this business. Mhmm. And for that week, you know, I still couldn't separate myself totally, but I came back the following week. Literally, Jim, we doubled our baseline production and collections. Yeah. Okay. And so now we more than made up for that week of nonproduction because now we got a new set point that was double what we were before we left.

1:43:10Yeah. And so so another habit from from Stephen Covey, sharpening the saw, habit seven. Mhmm. Okay? I have to take time to sharpen my saw so the saw is more effective. Mhmm. Okay? And so, you know, recharge, reset so I can rally. Hey. It's just like that. It's just like training for an Ironman. I mean, the recovery is most important. It's just as important as the training if not more so. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. So there are a lot of dentists out there, you know, ten years in the profession and, you know, they're feeling the grind and they're not sure, like, did I get in the right profession? Like, they're they're just they're struggling in some way. What would you want them to take from this conversation? Take some time away from the practice and build a vision for your life.

1:43:53This is the whole basis of my coaching business. And and, you know, that that's my demographic. Because ten years in, gosh, I wish I thought it would be better by now. And and because and but but when you don't articulate your vision and you don't really know what your purpose is, And a lot of these because of the the the benefit environment we're in, a lot of these practices now are very high volume.

1:44:16Yeah. And and they're a lot of them are treating teeth, not treating people. Henke said, I've never had a tooth walk into my office. Was always attached to somebody. Get to know that somebody you may get to practice. You may get to to improve their oral health. Okay? Get to know that somebody. And and and, you know, I've had this amazing relationship focused practice where I really yeah. I saw I I haven't practiced in this practice for several years now. I saw one of my patients yesterday at, an auto parts store, and she came up, grabbed me, gave me a big hug, and and and and asked me some you know, give me the hook. And she said, what do you think I should do about taking off? It's like but that's what kind of practice I had.

1:44:58Yeah. And I built it by intention. Yeah. And so those those dentists that are ten years in, you know, it's it's it's absolutely fixable, but it's an inside job first. And, you know, you get to learn, you know, what is your purpose? What are your goals? And how does this environment, you know, play along with that purpose and goals? And and what can you change? You know, do I have the right team? Do I have the right practice portfolio of of of of procedures that I do? Do I have am I attracting the right patients that give me maximum fulfillment? And so it's it's it's a vision first, and then we can help put it into action. And you can start over it every time. My first, pinky, my my, c one course back then was c c not e.

1:45:43I I shared a room with a 75 year old who was going for the first time. I was, you know, in my, late twenties. I wasn't sober yet, by the way. But but I was still into the the philosophy. And, you know, this guy was 75 years old. He's like, yeah. I'm looking for a change. I'm like, retire. He's like but he he wanted professional fulfillment. Yeah. And and one of his friends suggested to go. And, you know, in the last eight years of his practice, that's what he got to do. He do it at any time with a with a you know, but we have to envision it first, and it happens proactively. And it happens in intentionally. You have to do the work. You do That's right. Yeah. Things don't just happen. You gotta get into it. Yeah.

1:46:23So, Brett, man, this has been a great conversation. Yeah. I really appreciate you taking all this time. You know, like I said, just really enjoyed getting to know you, and I'm I'm happy to help more dentists and more people in the industry get to know you as well. So if if anybody wanted to reach out to you, you know, to ask about coaching or any of the other cool things you're doing, what what's the best way to get ahold of you? My email is bikodds@gmail.com. Bico d d s. My cell phone, (720) 989-7960. Social media messaging, very accessible, and I'm very connected. Well, that that's great, man. I really appreciate everything. You're a pleasure to chat with today. And, hey, man. Hope to get to see you soon.

1:47:08Likewise. Thank you so much for this opportunity. And, to everyone who's listening, if you are struggling, you don't have to struggle alone. Please reach out. Great message. Thanks, Brett. Thanks. If this conversation was valuable, share it with a colleague who's building something meaningful. For more leadership resources, visit foundationdentalalliance.com.